Gathering/ Harvesting failures - why?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steevodeevo, Aug 17, 2018.

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  1. Steevodeevo

    Steevodeevo Avatar

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    Hi all,

    I was just wondering after another of my fairly regular 'random' failure to gather x3 times in a row on a 95%+ gather/ harvest attempt, why we have failures at all?

    I looked into my crafting skills, and I can't see the one(s) that specifically causes a complete harvest or gathering failure. That was the first thought. Then I thought, why have gathering and harvesting failures at all?
    What are they for, other than to cause frustration and irritation? What do they achieve?

    If harvesting and gathering failures were removed from the game completely, other than the removal of the irritation of sitting through a complete harvesting cycle only to get a red circle failure, what would the game lose?
     
  2. CatweazleX

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    a victim either for a mob or another player
     
  3. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    I know we don't want to repeat past systems, but there was something elegant with the old UO system of gathering a particular resource, be it ore or wood, and having the node produce X number of possible attempts, and if you failed, that gave you the failure notification AND ticked down the possible attempts counter. It gave you a reason for skilling up your gathering skill, so that you had more successes per node.

    With crafting, the same thing applies. Right now, other than the loss of a "fuel" for about 60% of the recipes, there is ZERO consequence for failing in a crafting attempt. Other than the mild annoyance of failing in my attempts and the possible gold loss result from burning the fuel without success, and wanting to craft something more difficult, there is nothing that makes me want to raise my skill.

    I, for one, am ok with failures, but would like to see them have more sting.
     
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  4. Kain Darkmoor

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    Only thing they really accomplish is making the base gathering skills have a point to exist, as well as being a general timesink.
     
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  5. Dread1313

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    I think its stupid that I can chop down a whole friggin tree and get ONE LOG... Come on guys...
    With pieces needing multiple boards and needing multiple logs for one friggin board... /sigh I just dont understand how one tree = 1 board. For the way this game strives to incorporate all the real inconveniences we have to deal with, it utterly fails on delivering the other end of the spectrum. If I chop a tree down, a 30ft dead tree, you bet your ass I better get like 10-15 logs per tree, and then 2-3 boards per log.
    *SMDH*

    Here port, I will do your job for you.
    Give multiple attempts or "item/raw mat yield pool per node" and your tradeskill woes are solved. Wow that was easy!
     
  6. Woodchuck

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    hi @Steevodeevo , what is your harvesting skill at?

    I really don’t recall ever failing a harvesting attempt (at least not in the past several weeks).. maybe i did back when my harvest skill was lower? (but not sure)

    I have locked my harvesting skill at 86 right now because the next improvement is at level 104 and i don’t think the marginal improvement is worth all the XP to get there.
     
  7. Dinsoo

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    RN-Jesus = @Chris (like/math) = confusion^2

    note - Chris probably has nothing to do with the crafting math; just an wxample.
     
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  8. Nelzie

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    I don't... With my play schedule. It can take me upwards of three to four days of real life playtime, gathering resources to make ONE single set of Chainmail armor. Not to mention TRYING to get them exceptional and then... I still have to masterwork and enchant the items too....
     
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  9. Anpu

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    Do you get xp from failing?
     
  10. Steevodeevo

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    you do when crafting I believe
     
  11. Steevodeevo

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    the base gathering skill has a ratio for failures?
     
  12. Woodchuck

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    if you’re referring to harvesting .. no, there is no XP granted for successful harvest (or watering) so there wouldn’t be any for failing at it. You do get XP for sowing seeds though.. and same thing here, i don’t think i’ve ever failed at sowing seeds...
     
  13. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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  14. Steevodeevo

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    Hi Woody, sorry I missed your post. My gathering / harvesting skills vary from over 100 to around 75 for forestry, which is my lowest. My point is twofold -

    - Level doesn't seem to matter much. If I get a success prediction chance of 92-95+% it still fails a fair bit, often in batches (so once you fail it fails x3 times).
    - Why fail at all? What purpose does it serve?
     
  15. Spoon

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    Way back in 2014 when it was still discussed then I argued that failures should still remove the node but you should always get something.

    That wagon has left town though so it is what it is.

    So you strike an ore node, you roll up front so just like you get the ‘critical’ result text, you’d get a ‘fail’ result text, then it would hit your tool one extra time, then the timer starts - (which you can abort to run to the next, ), but if you finish the fail run you get the minimum result. In this case 1 ore with no extras and no meticulous roll or such.

    Where success would give you the random rolls and the extras, in the case of ore that for instance means granite and chance of rare metals etc.
    where for wood I argued that ‘wood chips’ and ‘plain bark’ would be the extra there, what we now would likely call wooden scraps/pulp.
    (My suggestion for critical result would be that the node remains afterwards, which would really ‘feel’ like a win).

    The reasoning being that a gathering fail in the current system is just a time sink which feels like a punishment. (I could go into the loss aversion vs Skinner box pop psychology spiel about why my suggestion would feel better than the current system).
    Which is also why a critical result of reduced time doesn’t ‘feel’ like a win. It’s not like you gained something, just that the timesink didn’t kick your behind.


    Ah, those were the days.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  16. Steevodeevo

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    Well yes indeed. If the fail served a purpose, or was the antithesis of some bonus or reward, or part of a system, ideally with a skill element, then ok. From what you describe however, what remains is so stripped down it is meaningless and serves no purpose other than to irritate.
     
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  17. Spoon

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    I don’t believe that the devs sees the current system as stripped down instead I think they simply believe in how they at that time chose to design and implement it.

    From a programmer perspective both system designs would take the same time to code and yield mathematically the same resources.
    And I don’t think a design change to something like my concept would take much effort or programming.

    But I simply don’t think they would see the ROI in the change thus not consider it.

    Me, I just argue now and then that I think that with my outline above the player would subjectively have a better experience of the gathering system due to how the human wetware functions.
    But who knows, I could be wrong.
     
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  18. Aelender

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    This is definitely a QOL thing that should be changed. Either there should be a consequence other then just clicking again (and again, again) or there should be chance of failure with no time involved. Right now it truly is just a useless punishment of time and annoyance.

    If they want it to matter (i.e. add consequence): make the node disappear after failure
    If they want it to continue to not matter (but remove the annoying factor): make the time to harvest a node significantly less (especially on the re-try)
     
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  19. Elwyn

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    I think raising your skill increases the chance of an exceptional craft, which is also 5x xp. With GM Smithing, the chance is around 28%.
     
  20. SmokerKGB

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    It's just "the odds", "the percentage" game... ie: you roll the dice and 5% of the time you lose... You just had "bad luck" if it happened to you 3 times in a row... Plus I think it has to do with your Adventure lvl Vs the Scene lvl, if the difference is to wide, the "odds" go up greatly... Meaning: if your av is 20 and you're in a 5+ scull area, you're way over your head, therefore the "odds" are against you to succeed...

    It's the way Odds work... It's always a "Gamble" to play the Odds... The higher the Odds, the more your winnings are, IF you do win... Try playing Craps sometime, there are Short Odds, and Long Odds... Most Casinos have classes...
     
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