Gold is a problem now

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 2112Starman, Aug 26, 2016.

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  1. LoneStranger

    LoneStranger Avatar

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    Your comment was just a continuation of what I see in the thread. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was singling you out. People are overreacting in here. I haven't actually seen anyone say they lost their lot or are on the verge of losing it. No one is being evicted yet.

    The devs had communicated their intentions to balance things. Continually. They may take big swings now, but they will forever be tweaking things. This is just part of the process of making a game. Take a big swing, analyze the data and keep doing it until it's as fair as it can be. I'm certain they've looked at all the factors, lot rent included and no one is going to lose their lot because of this. If you can't handle big swings, well, they said early on that playing a game in development is not for everyone. Some people understand this and are waiting for launch because they don't want to worry about big day-to-day changes.

    As far as taming not mattering... tell that to the taming people who logged in on Thursday that the thing they were focusing on, spent all that silver and old crowns, that the time was wasted. We had people up in arms about it. Then, from what I've read, it sounds like things aren't quite as bad. I am not a tamer, but I did notice my pet went from 50hp on Thursday to 180hp Friday night.

    I don't really know what to tell you about your expectations. Myself and my friends knew things would take a hit on Thursday. We were doing the halberd loop and earning money. I know the devs are watching the stats and I knew they knew what people were doing. We expected the changes and even postponed some dungeon crawling to get some last cash on Wednesday.

    I get the problem with persistence this early. My fear is that they won't make big changes when they are necessary, so we're probably on different sides of the 'fun game' coin.
     
  2. Bom

    Bom Avatar

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    The less gold you (and all other players) are able to earn, the more that gold will be worth, resulting in lower prices. Simply giving players more gold only inflates the prices players will charge making it harder for new players.

    If gold from adventuring is more scarce then the gold received from the new player quests will be worth much more proportionally, actually benefiting new players.
     
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  3. Modu

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    Simply cutting the gold that drops doesn't really hurt the hard core players, it just hurts the casuals. That's how it's always been and that's why it was never a good solution in any game, ever.

    To quote Chris Rock:

    "You got 20 million and your wife wants half, no big deal you ain't starvin. If you make 30,000 and your wife wants 15,000 - you might have to kill her..."
     
  4. Kaisa

    Kaisa Avatar

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    Yep if people can make plenty of gold they are far more likely to spend that extra gold on vendors. They are more likely to be willing to spend money on things that maybe they don't NEED but would be nice or cool to have. But with gold so hard to get people are just going to hold on to their money even those that already have a stash saved up. If they do spend any money it will only be on things they must.
     
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  5. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Thanks for the message. Just a couple of further comments:
    Pledges containing lot deeds are contractual instruments, coming with the opportunity of lot placement in a specified time window, which Portalarium decided (rather lately, maybe last year or so, definitely not "early on"!) that it would occur before the game was actually released. So there was really no room for "understanding this". Of course, all the lots sold this way are tax free and do not therefore pose a problem. However, lots and housing bundles have also been sold in the web store, with clear indication of having the opportunity for decent lot placement during the exact same land rush. Moreover Portalarium has also clearly indicated in its announcements, in July 26th, more than a month ago (see the quote in my previous msg) that, for example, row lot taxes should be coverable by roughly one hour of weekly gameplay. This is significant because it has certainly influenced lot and bundle purchase decisions. With current tax rates this translates to an estimate of 3500/hour, and (based on the estimates posted in here) currently it is barely 1/10 of that (I haven't tried it personally yet, but a higher level player might be able to make half of the expected amount). So all things considered, perhaps the "sorry if you can't handle swings of a game in development" argument might hold water, but I perhaps wouldn't push it too far - it's not only a legal obligation, it's also a moral obligation. But as you said it will most likely work out fine. However, the clock keeps ticking.
    But the thing is, it wasn't wasted. Or, basically, all that was wasted was time, if even that. That kind of thing is fully expected from a game in development. Unless someone has purchased taming gear from the web store with big $$$ (assuming such things would even exist) even in the worst case scenario there is no permanent harm done. There simply is no equivalent to getting evicted from your lot, because of inability to pay taxes. And the clock keeps ticking.

    You say that people are overreacting. Even if that were true (the jury is still out on that one), it is based on valid concerns, and could easily have been prevented, or after the fact, addressed, with a single message from the developers.
     
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  6. Turk Key

    Turk Key Avatar

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    I was making about 7500 gold an hour with somewhat casual play. Since the nerf I am lucky to get 1500 an hour working real hard. I have to stick to 1 and 2 skull areas so I can overpower mobs quickly. In higher level areas it takes too long to kill the mobs with no additional return. So presently I would estimate that it would take the average player 3 to 4 hours to earn their rent. In the meantime my character does not advance any more because I am not earning enough EXP. I guess this is workable over the long run for many people, especially those who like to RP. For me personally it is boring.
     
  7. Fel

    Fel Avatar

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    First and foremost , the game should be fun and dont get confused this is a game . After selling 200k usd of non tangible items in 12 hours , i personally think there geniuses at marketing thats for sure . Though you would think they would want their supporters to be happy . At the moment there is much discontent , i've even seen comments like " if it gets ant worse i am selling my accoutn and walking away" . Lol if it gets any worse you might not be able to sell your account . Lets get back to fun and enjoyable , especially as many people have a decent amount of real cash into stuff that is not real and could be lost any day . Taking away the long bow was a huge mistake imo and the market has been killed . Nothing is selling , hard to be able to afford regents and crafting supplys from the npc . Please fix asap Dev's . imo try not to worry so much about people having a good time and fix more bugs , make the game run more smooth with less glitches . Taking 10 to 15 minutes relogging just to try to get in the same instance is just 1 of many frustrating things that the time could have been spent on . Sincerely a First Release UO Lover . Best game of all time before modded .
     
  8. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    I like role-playing, but I also want to pay my rent. That's why I don't want to grind for several hours a day, then be made to play another hour to actually have some real time enjoying the game.
     
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  9. Evilgamer

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    This is a not entirely right, now...full disclosure I'm both high level (something over AL65) and have a tax free town lot so the rent discussion doesnt affect me..though as Ive said for the larger lots 30 hours a month of gameplay to afford something isn't a game, its a job.

    BUT I can make more than 500g just fighting the mobs in vauban pass on my way to or from home rather than just running through. And if I'm going for pure gold (which admittedly is neither exciting or good XP) I can more than make 3500g an hour by a good margin.. I would gladly take 3500g an hour doing something that was fun...sadly thats not currently the case...and THAT is a problem.

    They tightened the gold supply to the point that (as mentioned earlier) I no longer buy things that I dont critically need..but lets not overreact.
     
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  10. Elwyn

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    Then your money is not only not helping keep the economy moving, it isn't making you any money. Since R32, I've put about 100K into buying cheap COTOs, plus 40K that went into raffle tickets (I don't plan on getting any more tickets this month). The money to buy other people's COTOs lets them have money to spend on other things (hopefully on something else sold by a player), and it's also an investment. I expect their value to rise eventually, and they will be worth multiple times what I paid for them.

    Maybe you can cut back on those spells that use a lot of reagents? My main spells are Healing Touch, Healing Ray, Searing Ray, Fire Arrow, and (when applicable) Banish Undead. Only the last uses reagents, Corpse Wax (dropped by the very undead I am fighting), Garlic (I learned where a few garlic plants can be found), and Sulfurous Ash, which is the only one I have to buy every now and the . After a while, I end up with excess Corpse Wax (a lot!), Mandrake, and Nightshade because I know where to harvest them as I travel. No, I do not try to kill big groups of mobs at the same time, and I salvage most of the drops anyhow.

    When you fill up your gas tank, do you fill up with premium when regular will do? You're burning premium when you insist on using reagent-guzzling tier 3 spells all the time. It's like a Toyota FJ: cute as it can be, but you only get 13 MPG.

    If it's so easy, then you should maybe try doing it yourself? And as far as single/friends mode goes, do you know that all of the mines are set to single/party-only mode? You don't have the option to compete with someone else in a mine! (Not strictly true, I found out today that Verdantis mine is currently set to multi-player mode, and predictably it was mined dry.)

    Correction: items on the public vendor have one week to sell. If they fail to sell, you are refunded the amount an NPC would pay for the item. Yes, this means that an item with 0 value (like, say, a pledge reward) will be shredded and you will receive 1 (one) gold. I'm not sure why they chose that over simply returning the item, since the technology requirement is not really any different. Maybe it was to avoid abusing a full bank, but I can see other alternatives to that. I also think that 10% is pretty harsh for the fees, but they can always change their minds later.

    Also, the fees are based on the price you set, not the actual value of the item. If you set an absurd price that won't sell, you are penalized 10% even if you pull your item before it expires.

    That would be because no taxable lots could be placed until group 91, which was the day before R33 was released.
     
  11. Charlesscott1103

    Charlesscott1103 Avatar

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    Bump. We want Dev Feedback!
     
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  12. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Thanks. I took a break from crafting in Owl's Head to do a little testing of my own.

    I decided to test by going to a 30 minute speed run in areas with low-ish level mobs, trying to farm as many of them as I possibly can. I'm a - let's see - currently a level 67 archer, the clock started running right after entering the Hidden Vale overland map, I did a couple of rounds Ruined Keep, then went to Greymark Forest. I ran all the time using dash and Sprint whenever I could, attacked only lootable mobs (did skin a couple of wolves while restoring health and focus), the clock stopped at exactly 30 minutes and all the killing and looting ended there. All in all it was pretty horrible and stressful.

    The result:
    • 33 Shoddy Short Bow
    • 9 Lesser Elven Bow
    • 12 Lesser Staff
    • 6 Lesser Wand
    • 4 Longsword
    • 7 Rusty Sword
    • 1 Dagger
    • 1 Kobold Hammer

    • 64 Corpse Wax
    • 6 Animal Hide
    • 2 Obsidian Chip
    • 3 Spider Silk
    • misc low value stuff not worth writing down separately
    ---------------------------------------
    • Total value of looted stuff when sold to NPC merchant: 1031
    • Looted gold: 1049
    • Total enemies killed: 66 (avg 1 every 27 seconds)
    • Total earned in 30 minutes: 2080
    So yeah it can be done theoretically, if one is of high enough level and can practically just run and loot like hell.
    But it was really a horrible experience, nothing I would exactly call "fun". I actually will never want do it again, nor could I imagine doing it for a full hour straight.

    Casual play earnings would probably be about half of that, or much less (if one wants to focus on something else too, not just dumb farming)

    So in practice with the current balancing, this would translate to about 2 hours of normal, very farming oriented gameplay per week for a moderate-high level player, just to pay for the upkeep of a single row lot (everything else, would come on top of that).

    Food for further balancing...
     
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  13. The Hendoman

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    Double like. excellent reporting. Did you also keep track of exp gains by any chance? It's for another thread...

    THE HENDOMAN
     
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  14. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Thanks. I haven't noticed anything odd about XP gains, so no. If I remember correctly, not long ago a skelly archer was something like 240 xp, and the lower level elves in Greymark 600-something, maybe 650 or 690 depending on if it's a fighter/mage/archer, don't remember exactly. (Edit - skelly archers seem to be worth 180xp nowadays, and footmen 190, those elves a bit higher than before, 850-1005 xp depending on type)

    That said, I thought of maybe writing some kind of general level primer regarding XP related stuff - there seems to be so much misunderstandings and misinformation floating around about the subject. But I digress...
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  15. Elwyn

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    An alchemist can pay 2/3 of value instead of the default 1/2 of value. I just confirmed it on my local alchemist. So that's a few more extra gold. I always end up with a surplus of corpse wax after farming skeletons for scrap, so it's all bonus cash for me.

    So you want good gold and good exp at the same time? And maybe a pony, too?
     
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  16. 2112Starman

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    I surely dont think people are over reacting to this. The main issue here is pricing new players out of the game and if just one player leaves this game because they started it up, went and killed some stuff and couldn't even repair their gear which causes them to quit, this is an issue. I am in the largest guild in SOTA right now where a *lot* of guild help is given and a lot of our newer player are really having issues right now with this.

    Everyone excepts that this game is alpha and this is a process but it flipped to far in this case and needs to be fixed quick before new people leave the game.

    Its funny that everyone always holds SOTA up to UO. UO was actually 10x worse then this when it first came out. I actually remember (after beta testing it) starting UO and having no gold to do anything. I actually quit UO for 6 months, luckily came back and a lot of its big issues had been fixed. I remember mass volumes of people starting UO when it first came out and just quitting (usually PK related).
     
  17. 2112Starman

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    Its gotten a bit better, Im not calculating my normal 5 skull farming bringing in around 3K per hour now. I can kill about 100 mobs and hour and they are dropping around 20 gold each now.

    On the flip side, us rich are doing well. Prices are dropping. I picked up over 500 Silver Ore at about 6500 per 100 stack which is a great price.
     
  18. Blackghost

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    You guys went to far and yet , you guys don't even said a word ?
    Would you mind to talk to us? Like a real DEV, tell us what you will do with this.
     
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  19. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Instead of creating vanity gold sinks that are optional and target the rich (like I've been calling for forever) they will continue to nerf loot where other players will really struggle to get by, making the game a chore that isn't fun to play.
     
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  20. LoneStranger

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    We agree that there is a problem. I think we just disagree that it's a long term problem. I think they'll fix it soon, while many in the thread seem to think this is a permanent thing. We're still in the first few days after the change, including a weekend where Port isn't working, but a weekend where a lot of data is being collected. On Monday, I'm sure Chris and the rest of them will look at the numbers and tweak more stuff.

    I remember early UO. @Kilwhch and both enjoyed the beta and suffered through it. I lasted maybe a few months post launch before I quit because it needed so much work and the PKing was a downer. I went back once a few years later for a little bit.
     
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