Goodbye Open PvP

I have nothing against safeguards for some zones... but saying stuff like "players can police themselves" and "you should just unflag" is really what is dividing the community. Having magic without gods and faiths (in which even an evil player has an ethic to please his god or suffer consequences) is what is dividing the community.

The model here is clearly SIMS.

MY PROBLEM is that the devs seem to enjoy those replies, cause it takes future work off their hands.

And noone likes to work on a ... game... they... started...

wait a minute... what did I just say ?!!!

Look at what you MADE ME SAY !

 

Well Policing ourselves keeps it in community control ( not a perfect system but it like many things in SoTA based on our wants and actions ) and Flagging Is needed for many event reasons ... and events that the devs show up to give us a good example they cant come to a pub and say hay thanks for coming out if they are being beat on ..... but that does not mean they cant participate in fights .... Chris has done it more than a few times... but if they forgot to flag they are getting whooped on if someone only likes to fight on Tuesdays .. well I don't want to see them pushed out of sight out of mind to another instance * cough* * cough* Trammel . ..

 

Yes, but no... I mean no but yes... argh.

I think there is plenty of lore to support a kind of more subtle influence that would direct good players (like cops) to good ways of not being annoying in their "anti-pk quest" and yes I'm biased but I still don't like the idea of a machine dictating what I can and can't do.

Wherever theres a motivator players will act, we see it for ugly piece of clothing with no practical use, so its time to give a few advantages that will invectivate players (is that even a word?) to group up by their character spiritual philosophy, thus creating a force in their auto-policing.

A res killer would be forced to be labeled a total prick and THEN, but only then the system kicks in with penalties.

It needs to be rich and ingenuous to support any type of lore, or roleplayers will be forced to not really immerse time and again, due to guild relations being too important in that style of play.

Never limit the character, should be the motto of every MMORPG, just like in a shop we say the client is always right.

 

Well, and that is why I unflagged. Because permanent spawn camping does not look good and people not knowing the history will be easily persuaded to join the other side.

 

And some people here really wanted this game to be fully open PvP with full loot... Sorry but this clearly shows why this wouldn't work.
Unless of course the devs would want to ignore MANY gamers and cater to a rather small audience (which doesn't seem to care about the story and quests, so why bother including those things) and unless they want to create a game that frustrates many of its players.
No one can tell me that it is fun being spawn-camped etc. over and over again and that this is something so many people would enjoy to support a game on their own.

 

Lots of generalisation Lord Darkmoon, very unbecoming of you.

Most disgruntled pvp players who act on hormones like you indicate behave so because they're not been given a proper motivator to actually follow story and quests.

the lore dosen't tie up the knot...

We agree on the general essence, this is meant to be a spiritual sucessor to ultimas, thats what we backed... but the way you reach your depressed conclusion is wrong. You can't talk about a whole array of potential players like that...

 

Quick question... why didn't you stop taking resurrections and just spawn and the entrance? there is no way they could of spawn killed u then.
I believe the GM's have stated the games not going to be full loot so Stop worrying about it PLZ, there just suggestion by other players that WONT come true because its been said, told and im sure theirs a song some where that say SOTA will not be full loot. The fact that people complain about this is just getting to be a annoying.

off note if the game was full loot and they spawn kill you they can only loot you once.

 

Do you really think that SotA could be immensely successful if every player would be forced to do open PvP? With spawn-camping, rez-killing, newbie-attacking etc.?
Is this really fun for so many players that SotA could be really successful?

People here say that the community would regulate itself but I can't believe that. There are so many people out there who are having a blast by ruining the fun for others. There will always be spawn-campers etc.

There is a reason why so many games do not use open PvP with full loot. Even Ultima Online had to take measures against this as otherwise it would probably have failed.

There are a lot of players who like open PvP and full loot and they accept the risk that comes with that. But obviously there are even more players who don't like it. At least there are many players who don't like it and the question is: Does Portalarium want to alienate those players? Spawn-Camping, rez-killing, attacking newbies over and over can be very frustrating for people and I doubt that the goal of Portalarium is to create a game that frustrates its players.

I don't have a problem with PvP as it is in the game. It is optional which I think is great. And if spawn-camping etc. is encouraged and part of this PvP-game and caters to a certain audience, then ok. As long as it is optional I don't have to take part in this and will do other things in the game. But I still think that it would not work if open PvP would be forced on everyone. Portalarium would then miss on out a very large playerbase.

 

No in fact if you followed I never argued for "self-policing" and "flags"... which create division and frustration before we've even started the argument.

The thing is that this is not UO, I don't know how else to explain it but this cloud based game will record everything, theres a trace which wasn't there in UO.

That trace can be used to modify the game without gamemaster intervention, in a situation that is anti-roleplay and downright hateful, the game could automatically react by punishing the offending player.

But thats the thing, when you let a machine do all the work... there OUGHT to be a few dozen movies about that philosophical subject.

What I'm saying is that DarkThorne for example could double up in the game as the god of chaos (thieves and outcasts) which god should need to be pleased. And since everything is recorded everytime he logs on he could have a nice little report of players who are pushing the boundaries.

Thats the magic of the cloud and any dev team who does not use those functionalities look outright badly intentioned, or not LOVING the game they are creating.

What is it for him to log in and spend 10 minutes of his life moderating his own game, with roleplay in context...

I think it boils down to that, cause we all know the majority of players will play "normally" and "fairly" especially if they know their accounts actions are all recorded. There isn't a barrier of anonimity so much as in UO, and even if you can somehow put yourself in that situation, the game still records who you are and "the god of chaos" can punish you for not being a "cool" chaos agent.

Behind the scenes, in roleplay, and without you being able to argue about it.

Thats my issue here, the "argument" being used as an excuse to not keep hands on the wheel.

 

Lord_Dark It might just be me but I get none of what you got from Ahuaeynjgkxs comment, he mentions Nothing of Open pvp, spawn camping, rez killing, newbie attacking...

At this point in time you seem just to be against pvp over all and that fine but you are taking it to far your aggressive to some one that said nothing of the reason your being aggressive to him. He just stated that you where assuming every single pvp player are like the 2 people in this clip, which i agree is a bit of a rather large clam, but nether he or I disagree with the fact that people will not enjoy being spawn killed.

Your other point of people wanting to have the game be open pvp and full loot is a pointless argument because its been stated so many times that neater of them are going to happen.

As for the Devs ignoring the pve community I'm not even gonna get in to that you know as well as the rest of the community (even the ones that don't like it) the devs just arn't gonna do it so that's a point less argument.

(Edit: it took me really long to type this i didn't see Ahuaeynjgkxs response before i posted it)

 

Well, obviously you cannot decline resurrection And well, the whole point was that I asked question and wanted to hear the answer. If I spawn at entrance I am out of reach of local chat and out of the event. You could as well ask why did not I quit the game and play something else? Or play in singleplayer.

As for community self policing, that is impossible to do unless we get option to look problematic players in prison for a very long time (months at least). Of course in such case baddies might be rare and some would complain that the game is boring.
If we need at minimum one guard at full attention in any scene we want to protect for any possible bad guys at all times, then community cannot police itself effectively. Some could argue it is fun, you get to PvP a lot, but the issue here is, the PvP you get does not make any scene, people will fight in the most populated areas, but that means that events will get disrupted or not attended and people will not be able to talk to each other properly if they are constantly ambushed.

Anyway the game is far from finished, but I think it is important to bring these issues now, to get idea what we or the devs want PvP to be. What the rules will be. Whether we want situations like the one in the video. Whether attacking players during the events is the only bad thing, or whether attacking them outside of events is just as bad or totally acceptable? Should be PvP part of the game, immersion and roleplaying or should it be free for all kind of thing on the same server with all other people arround as audience?

 

Well I just mean you could of spawned away from them and walked back at least then you could of gotten there full healed and ready for anything , but i understand cant say no to a resurrection

I'm Slightly confused about this bit but feel I shouldn't respond to the rest as my response might be off or seem rude :/

 

Just some short comments here.

I was there and I didn't get the same impression.

The vast majority of the people attending were not flagged Open PvP and since it wasn't in a PvP area wouldn't be able to do anything regardless.

As has been proven elsewhere a griefer could easily have disrupted the event at any point, regardless of PvP or not. Basically someone spamming chat could have ruined the event since it was chat based.

There showed up players at the event which have had fights eleswhere and which have ruined other events before, which could have easily ruined the event if they wanted to.

So what the Event holders expressed was not approval of the behavior itself, but rather a resignation to the inevitable and expressed approval that at least it didn't happen during the event.


Then most was there in the capacity of them as people, not as characters. Most of the talk if not all was meta talk. So while their characters might have reacted to murder, in this capacity they were there as players and as such a death is nothing more than a respawn.

If you would ask the attendants then I think that most of the people there are not PvP types at all and would disapprove of the whole concept altogether.

This is inherently so with all PvP combat that have some sort of Alpha strike, which makes it most MMOs.

Right now it is pretty bad in SotA since being in development there are just so many exploits in it that such alpha strikes will be lethal.

This is where I think the problem lies and the solution.

Even non-PvP flagged should be able to cast protective spells or take protective action to prevent events from being attacked. I've proposed such things repeatedly in similar discussions. The problem is that most such are exploitable so there needs to be some exploit checks (which I've also proposed).

This so that the Event Holder can create an AoE which enforces peace in a smaller area which is clearly visible to all. As long as the Event Holder keeps it up and people stay within the AoE everyone should be "safe". But abuse of such can be reported and the Event Holder's privileges to cast such would be revoked permanently.
This could also help in things like the shardfall FFA events where there is a need for a spawn area and a repair kit salesman, or press etc.

 

Beg your forgiveness Lord_Dark apparently they will be adding full loot Zones... well this just got awkward >_>
But it is a Zone and you don't have to go in there for anything but full loot PVP... Anyway... um... how you doing?

A post i over looked though it was just complaing till I noticed it was posted by a dev I actually gave it a read over
(https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/full-loot-pvp-and-stuff.23066/)

 

Lol I am really glad you saw the problem with that right off the bat... but in saying that I do feel like your on to something but rather the owner plot why not the city. Of course this will require Devs to and an area for players to hold an event in but I don't think that should take to much effort.

Although this area could be used as a money sink in game Player pays for the area a selected time period, Pay a little more and a Event Planner guy will come running over and follow you around in the area with a supply of Stands and walls you name it everything you can think of that you might need to host and kind of event.

Now add this area to Player Owned Towns where they could use this area for free, but can still pay at a 50% discounted price for the event Planner, but the decorations stand still who ever is in charge tells the event planer to remove everything thing so they can set up for the next event.

I'll stop talking because I could just keep going lol.

In short Brilliant idea! Needs work.

 

Many good Points in this discussion, but i only want to add my view of the pking/rushing/mudering happening in the last days. I wasnt at the Event, but there was similiar Action around Kingsport and Owls Head some times. I experienced it as an attempt to get away with the boring time close to the coming wipe/release. I got bored too and im thankful for the action. Maybe it is also good to see how this works now and think about possible counters. I just hope they/we find a way for that without more added functionality. As /Zone will not be in the release, it will be more difficult anyway.

 

We should not think in problems but solutions , we should accept each other as fellow gamers .
This is OUR game so we should work together to make it a home for everyone .
Our personal truth is not the only one and as soon we learn to accept that we can work together with compromises from BOTH sides .

Let us lay this first brick together to make a foundation that can not be broken
We can show the world , we can make that difference and write history !

Compromises are the corner stone of any solid foundation .
You can gamble to get it all and end up with nothing...
So with compromises everyone is a winner in the end .

My thoughts are Chaos Play ,the chaotic dimension can be entered by people that get a special PVP buff from something /ritual /drink/blessing what ever comes to mind
This could make people have PVP in the whole world but can not interact with the non PVP people .(read kill them )
A bit like that Trion game , that shooter mmo forgot the name .

Second less rich is ditch the flag system , make the PVP area's full PVP .
Duelling could be "special group mode" with out a PVP flag .
Deserters will get a buff "the smell of rotten eggs" and not be allowed to get into PVP area's for 15 minutes (or any time that feels punishing" )
Player owned towns can make there own rules with "rotten eggs for deserters and lock out to enter for 15 minutes (or any time that feels punishing" )

These are just thoughts my try to help the PVP community .
Feel very free to disagree ,better come up with much better ideas than these brain farts

So chip in , Chris should not have to do this on his own and later get complaints because we kept our mouth shut or only spoke of dislike but never worked together for solutions

We all share the SotA dream and we should work as one to make it happen !

 

Envy, I agree this is an example of what you describe as a no holds barred version of the game right now. I have played those also. SotA at launch is probably not even going to be close to this. Whether I like it or not, your system will not happen. One thing I see for sure (and I am not trying to nitpick anyone) is that it seems to me (IMO) that most hard core PvP players do not care about community, or the actions or feelings of other players. They want what they want. The thrill of victory, the spoils of war, the ability to grief so hard they make people rage quit and claim glory for it for "weeding out" the weak sheep. This is ultimately one of the downfalls in a community driven game. Actions have consequences. If there is no balance in game, then you better be sure players will complain out of game. An outraged voice on the forums and overzealous attitude toward the belittlement of other players is exactly playing into the hands of the PvE crowd. I am pretty certain that lately PvP will be upset when banning features get slapped in game for player lots, and possibly towns. We know guards are not going to be much in episode one so that leaves the other alternative. So yes, PvP, be strong, be proud, take this time to do your worst to people, because it will change, and you wont like it later.

 

Haven't actually downloaded SOTA yet but it's all paid for.

If it's anything NOT like UO where spawn camping, res killing, PKing, and open ganking is all open and acceptable then I'll be disappointed.

It makes the game a lot more entertaining regardless of which end of the sword your facing. It's fun to be on both ends at times and is what makes PVP exciting..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think that in some areas you will see a complete free for all. There are many many players who actually have a huge appetite in playing more 'hardcore' PvP. Its worth also noting that the 'community' that you see here in general tend to enjoy more of a structured ruleset based upon fairness and virtue..........the community you see is only a small subsection of the overall community. There are many players who won't even dip their toe in the water on SotA because all they see is watered down 'safe' PvP. You would also find that the vast majority of those players would not mind if there is a virtue system attached to their actions.......in fact they quite like it and thrive on it, it becomes part of the bragging rights amongst that section (a bit like in UO on how many murder counts/ping pongs you had). Yes there should be town guards who attack but equally there should be areas without guards.

There is no reason why there cant be PvP areas that accommodate everyone's requirements.