Goodbye

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by enderandrew, Jun 15, 2014.

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  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    I'm not making a suggestion for the trolls, but for the devs, I honestly would like to see some change here. Not all those people in those threads that are angry are trolls though. They seem like trolls because they are really frustrated. The real trolls in those threads usually appear like nice guys, but they dig into a topic that stirs up the people who are already frustrated.

    example: "Well I just don't know why PvPers always want to attack newbies, and take advantage of them. It ruins the game."

    That's something that can never happen in SotA because PvP is optional. That is an example of a true troll in those threads.
     
  2. Sir Mike Dragon

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    That's a very important point. I don't have a problem with opinionated people, there are many I disagree with here. But they aren't the problem.
     
  3. Ned888

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    So dissent is trolling but spouting the same point over and over again isn't? I kind of think you have it backwards.

    Either way if someone wants to quit the forum then they should just go. It's a blatant cry for attention when someone posts a long winded and sobby goodbye post. IMO you should just get yourself gone and be done with it. If you don't want to be here then don't be; there's no need to explain.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Mercyful Fate

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    First post of your's that I actually agree with. :p
     
  5. Trenyc

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    Most "trolls" of that type, even, aren't actually trolls but rather people who just don't understand the other side of the fence. It happens often when two very rigid opinions are in conflict. And then there's the difference between people talking about how things are and people talking about how things should be, as both parties fail to realize that the other side isn't actually in conflict with their own. :confused:

    It's not uncommon for open forums to descend into aggressiveness and violence because, to be frank, most people have crappy communication skills and lack empathy and good judgment. That's nothing new. There are even a couple juicy examples in the relatively recent history of the American government, like this good ol' boy punching a fellow Alabaman state senator:



    Ironically, none of that means that either position is any more or less valid. People get passionate when it comes to things they care about; as Darth Bane will happily tell you, "There is no peace; only passion." And when people are emotionally motivated by something, they tend to do things that even they would see as mistakes if they saw someone else doing them. Compound that by how much people care about their video games.

    The mods are people, too. They get invested in the idea of doing what they can to benefit the forum they are responsible for moderating. Sometimes they get frustrated and make mistakes, just like many of the people they end up having to warn. Of course, there's no one to mod the mods, so you kind of have to expect to be hit by a few stray shots every once in awhile and just be grateful that, generally speaking, they do know how to aim. :p
     
  6. Doppelganger [MGT]

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    You referenced Darth Bane lol, awesome. That alone garners a "like" for your post. Call me crazy though but isn't the community manager in charge of keeping tabs on the Moderators? It seems the mods are free to run wild, but I thought that wasn't supposed to be the case exactly.

    Either way, what may appear to be trolling may actually be any combination of poor communication skills, lack of understanding, plain ignorance, or an indifference to the topic being discussed. Things can also quickly escalate into a passionate back-and-forth convo wrought from passion. That is when a lack of understanding others points can turn into a flame war. Again that touches on communication skills, because if ones message isn't delivered well, it will cause a lack of understanding from others.
     
  7. Trenyc

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    It might be frustrating seeing someone do that, but you'd probably be righter to assume that those people don't know any better than to assume they're actually trying to solicit a frustrated reaction. Whether they actually are trolling or not isn't at all the point. The point is that maybe--even if the chance seems very small--they might not be. And anyway, intelligent, constructive responses are the most frustrating counter to trolling for an actual troll. Effective trolling relies on the target become frustrated and responding aggressively or defensively. If you deny that to an apparent troll and just keep a level head, if that person is actually trying to troll, he or she will just give up. If he or she isn't trying to troll, though, you end up doing a big service to the community by helping someone new really figure out what SotA is all about. It might or might not be the game for them, and either way is ok. The idea is that we should be constantly reminding each other that we're all on the same team and that our feedback should always reflect our personal opinions, not a generalized and unequivocal statement of, "This is what's best for the game." Both of those bits can be easy to forget at times, but hey, overall we should be trying to help this development effort, not stress it with the kind of squabbling you'd expect from a crowd of 13-year-old Xbox gamers. And you know how the saying goes: it takes two to tango.
     
  8. Trenyc

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    Yes, ultimately. But it's not the kind of "in charge" that's applicable to the situation I was describing. A lot happens on these forums, and the community manager (name omitted intentionally) can't keep up with all of it. If you're genuinely experiencing mod abuse, that's the person to talk to (if you've taken a long, hard look at your own behavior first :p), but generally you can't count on the community manager seeing things happen in the day-to-day unless someone points them in the right direction.
     
  9. Isaiah

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    I have no problem repeating myself. If somebody missed a good point a few pages back, sometimes it's worth repeating something so that all are exposed. Sometimes it's just not possible to read a thread all the way through.

    Also some points are worth repeating. Especially if we want to be flexible and come to a good compromise with looting and ransoms. We all have come up with some subpar ideas for one reason or another. The current ransom idea (although well meaning) has upset quite a few people. However the devs believe that is a reasonable solution. If we can express why for us it is too far of a compromise, but we use kind and perswasive words rather than just say it sucks.

    Sometimes even good ideas start with something that needs to evolve. I truly believe the ransom and loot system the devs have proposed needs to evolve. From that perspective it isn't a bad idea, it just isn't a full formed idea. Then we can all be flexible together.

    It is difficult to disagree, but we can disagree in a positive manner instead of letting ourselves go to that dark place.
     
  10. cariac

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    May the gods be whit you and good luck for the future.
     
  11. Time Lord

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    "Demands of the Loveless"
    [​IMG]
    We will be having allot more people showing up here. There are those that know something about the game and there are others who "demand things of subjects that the game has yet to create".

    The demand of Full PvP & Full Loot has been with us since before the time our first city of Owl's Head was ever created. We can't expect these demands to stop by any reason, because there is no reason to base reason on yet to be seen or tested, thus they become only hollow demands of the loveless.

    We that came out of love for Richard Garriott's games are now being faced with answering questions we have no answers for, because those who do not or have not had the chance to loved Richard's games do not understand his gaming lineage.

    Currently we have a very small guild worth of loving posting members who have dedicated themselves to learning and helping in any way they can to help the production of our game and we also have the loveless who have been game educated outside of Richard's personal influence as an innovating, virtue weighing, player combat lover. Yet there is even a smaller number now such as "enderandrew" to help those newer members gain the same SotA knowledge we have and also to continue contending with the demanding loveless.

    There are many more coming of common game playing folks and our fears of them coming under the influence of the demanding loveless members will increase as they increase. We also cannot expect the loveless to suddenly have love for our Richard Garriott's games based on faith unless we ourselves can also have that faith, until our game is ready to test those currently unknown things the loveless demand. We also cannot expect the common gamer to understand our faith because they may not know all about the full history of gaming and how our Richard helped change that world in the most radical and player combative ways and thereby changed the world into what we now all enjoy.

    So, please buckle up your safety belts and bring your seats to their full and upright position, because many more common gaming folks are coming, as well as more demands from the loveless.
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  12. Parallaxe

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    How many of you have actually read the original posting(s) that led to the situation which the thread opener described? Or the discussion(s) between him and the mods? I haven't. And unless I don't know both sides, I have learned not to trust the one side that is posting and claiming to be the sole and tragic victim. Maybe he is, but I'd never judge that by hearing one side alone.

    What is this "trolling" that many of you are referring to? I have moderated many forums and learned a simple rule: The trolls are always "the others". Therefore I get very sceptical if someone claims that he conclusively knows who's a troll and who isn't. Trolling lies in the eye of the beholder. That's why every forum needs mods.

    And regarding the criticism some offered against the mods here: I actually learned to respect them, because they don't censor critical postings against Portalarium or SotA, as long as these critical postings are written in a respectful manner. You don't get that level of aplomb a lot. The mods here even seem to tolerate the anti-mod criticism that some of you have raised. That's quite a permissive attitude which I respect a lot.
     
  13. BillRoy

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    So many big words...so many sentences...:confused:
    I don't really know what you are trying to say, friend, but I Don't Like It!:mad:
     
  14. Isaiah

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    It would be a shame if @enderandrew quits because he isn't a troll and has good intentions. I don't blame him for being upset. It takes guts to speak your mind. Also when you share your true feelings and you get rejected it hurts worse.

    That's probably true with the devs, and they might feel a bit jaded these days. I think we all need to join back up to one team, and renew our thinking so that disagreements are no longer us vs them, and view ourselves as being apart of a single community that has lots of ideas (even contrasting ideas). There is polite criticism, and I think we need to resort to that regardless how frustrated we might feel. Getting angry is usually comes from within us, and not because something somebody else did.
     
  15. Joviex

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    Yes and no.

    I manage a lot of people. I have no clue everything that goes on and I am not supposed to unless it needs my attention.

    That is the exact role of the moderators (i.e. leads). And if it needs my attention, they let me know.

    If you have bad/poor leads/moderators, time to switch them out. Simple as that.

    But, this community is not a company of 600+ people that need pipeline support. It is not "that" fast moving.

    The community manager should be able to be on top of everything, only because, anecdotally, I almost can keep on top of everything happening, even with a full time day job.

    And there are plenty others here whose entire day is spent in/out of the forums and the chat. so....
     
  16. Isaiah

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    Even the moderators can get jaded. They are under scrutiny and they are donating their time.

    Everybody is getting angry. It's like a bad disease.

    Since we are all motivated to see the success of SotA, then we need to find an approach that side steps anger. To see an idea as something that can be used as a base for a new good idea, instead of just saying it sucks. The dev's ideas also don't have to be seen as good or bad, but something that may not have yet seen it's full potential. Maybe it's in the process of evolving.

    There is usually something good to every idea. However the potential of good ideas are there but the structure is usually in a state of change.
     
  17. rild

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    Surprised by this post, because I don't see EnderAndrew as a negative force on the forums. I do realize I don't see everything on here, and that the posts are cleaned by moderators on occasion. I've made the mistake of feeding the trolls now and again, and it's hard to say when to ignore and when to chime in sometimes.

    You've been a constant voice here and haven't annoyed the heck outta me yet ;)

    Hopefully we'll see more of you in the future. Thanks for your contributions to the community!
     
  18. Myth2

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    Why not just let the hate flow through you?
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Lord Gorynych

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    Stay with us!
     
  20. Doppelganger [MGT]

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