Grinding complaint...

... my grinding complaint is about me being tired of hearing people complain about "the grind"...

If you don't enjoy a game, don't play it. Please provide feedback if you think that things can be done differently/better - but if you ONLY want to complain you should probably start looking for something else that doesn't make you complain all the time.

I've been baby-sitting my nephew and my fuse for the endless complaining is now gone!

 

*complains* omg i so hate the grind!!! *complains*

 

What exactly is the line between feedback and complaining?

"this game is too grindy, you need to reduce the grinding" .... feedback or complaining?

 

Perhaps "leveling progression" is another way to frame this dialog? Grinding to grind is a gaming behavior that one chooses to do or not. But a grind required to show level progression is a bit more game imposed. I do think there might be a present slow down in solo progression rate, vs. what's possible for some grouping scenarios that's worth dialog.

 

Great question. For me, feedback is stating an opinion or responding to another person's opinion. Putting aside the obvious antagonist, the moment someone creates a new thread when a previous did not go their way or posts with an alt, that is complaining.

 

Not all games have equally grindy gameplay, though.

Basically, if you have things respawn repeatedly, the fights are not that challenging for your level, and you place very little limits on players to continue the cycle of farming - waiting to respawn - farming some more; then you're structuring a game around grinding. This is how a lot of MMOs work, yes. Which is why I always wanted SotA play closer to a SP game, because nobody really likes grinding.

What frustrates me the most is when players ask for features that make the game grindier, and then complain about the inevitable grindiness that results. "Make my grinding more convenient" almost always makes the gameplay grindier. Because it gets players stuck in that cycle of respawn farming. "Put this feature that I expect from this other grindy MMO in" also always makes the gameplay grindier.

On the other side of things, yea, you have not the gameplay itself, but the actual targets the devs are setting for people. So if tax rates are high or crafting requirements are high, making the gameplay less grindy -- which would be otherwise good -- would make the targets harder to accomplish. If you also have too much emphasis on levels and the effects of adventurer level, that also is another target you are pushing players to grind for.

Though just making grinding less easy would also allow devs to lower the targets, because rare things could stay rare.

 

Depending on the context of the statement, it could be both.... I wouldn't have an issue with it personally until it was stated several times by the same person over and over without any helpful criticism.

 

"Richard Garriott, the award winning designer and creator of the Ultima franchise, makes his triumphant return to the genre that earned him a place in the Hall of Fame and a Lifetime Achievement Award. Shroud of the Avatar is the first installment of Richard’s new vision and represents the reinvention of the classic, fantasy role-playing which he pioneered. A fantasy role-playing game that will focus more on player choices and discovery than on level grinding.Richard Garriott, the award winning designer and creator of the Ultima franchise, makes his triumphant return to the genre that earned him a place in the Hall of Fame and a Lifetime Achievement Award. Shroud of the Avatar is the first installment of Richard’s new vision and represents the reinvention of the classic, fantasy role-playing which he pioneered. A fantasy role-playing game that will focus more on player choices and discovery than on level grinding." - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0

 

"The game is too grindy, you need to reduce the grinding"... Complaining or helpful criticism?

 

Looks like complaining about complaining...
Wheres my meds and popcorn this should be good

 

grinding is a state of mind, and above all, a choice. Any one who says "Sota is grindy", might really be trying to say, "It takes too long to reach the soft cap, maybe we should flatten it out a bit."

 

I've never played a game since uo where it is so fun to 'grind' - I've been at it for 3 years now and it's still somehow soothing and fun.

I'm holding off quests until they are all ingame and done, so... I trust i'm adding valuable data for Sota while I wait and play. Pretty easy to do so far

THE HENDOMAN

 

Unsure what you are specifically referring to, however if this is coming from the new players along from players who have been playing for a while now and it has made you complain about the complaining then maybe there is an underlying issue here that a lot of the player base don't find it fun to level in this manner?

I know I am one of those and am hanging out anxiously for more quest zones like the new starter areas to add more interesting ways to increase your characters strength

 

I didnt grind for a whole year and i was able to solve the Mainstory without to grind.
I played here and there and got my xp and my loot get stronger over time.
Sure i had help and people also Gift me gear, but i never grind!

I know people who arent striving for more power, but just play by the way.
Adventuring etc...
Roleplaying a Game more or less.

People are striving for higher faster further and are doomed with less coziness.

You need no Grind, if you are able to just play by the way.
But i know most people see playing like it's work, they go only for rewards and becoming stronger, richer, more accepted....
Lots of people dont know how to play a game, they are already in a treatmill for endless growing and effort because thats it what they were told when they grew up.
Effort and success make you worthfull.
Therefore most people arent playing but just competing who grows faster and higher, who does the most effort and therefore earned to be the best.

Competition is one part of playing, but not necessarily a part of playing.
Playing and especially Roleplaying is something where competition sure is a point, but not the most important.

Most people dont play a Roleplaygame they rush it and they reduce it to mathematical Elements.
They race and min max thats all.
Like Brokers or Sportspeople, they only go for efficiency and to break the Rekord.

You can play a game and you can work on a game.

Players play, workers grind.

Edit: can you win this game?

 

Well I've put in 2959 hours in the game since November 2. I don't think of it really as a grind it's actually a lot of fun but I spend 90% of my time in groups. I think grind is just the word people use as an indication of having to kill the same sort of monsters over and over which I think will likely improve over time as more options of monsters are added. The devs have talked about working on more mid levels zones lately and I suspect that will lower the feeling of grinding for a lot of players which is great. There is a gap in the 4 to 8 skull zone areas for solo players that can make the game feel really annoying. I think the op is more annoyed at the negative emotions that come off the people that often declare the game a grind and that I can understand. No one really like negative emotions thrown at something they are actually enjoying. I also think people aren't exploring enough or working to find which monsters are best for their skill sets. I can kill undead and things in melee range fairly easily but find nonundead archers and mages annoying as hell. I don't waste time killing things that I'm not strong against or I travel with people that can kill them while I heal. There are certainly quests where this is difficult to do but general adventuring there are lots of options that are better for each type of skill set.

 

I guess now that you've made it more then once... it's technically complaining

 

If you don't like it, don't go to the forums.

 

Oh oh. I know this one...

Are there any internet brownie points to be had?
*spoon eagerly tap the mike for the bee resulting in a feedback squee*
The answer of course is:
False dilemma fallacy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Since it can clearly be both complaining AND constructive criticism.
*Spoon naively looks around the auditorium expecting adoration of his brilliancce*
What do you mean 'nitpicking of the worst kind'?
I mean that is another fallacy. Ive done much worse nitpicking in...
What do you mean 'not helping'?
*Spoon looks down*
Oh, did you know that that digit wasn't a rude gesture initially, it is in fact....urhm. What is up with torches and the pitchforks? Is there a party starting that you didn't invite....
IAAAARGH not the face not the face.

OoooOoooOOoOoooo
* goes looking for an ankh *

 

Let's keep it on the subject of grinding please, and let's be more specific to avoid the derailing of the thread.

 

The worst grind in the game is for PvP Artifacts in The Fall. The drop rate is abysmal, and they only drop off of small 20 hp mushrooms.

These are the artifacts: