Guild Warfare Feedback

I have always loved guild warfare. It is indeed one of the selling points to me in this game. I have in the past done much guild warfare and as structured for RP/PVP. I loved the set up because you could war another guild that played by the same ruleset you do. I was a RP guild so I did RP/PVP. This let us stage battles and set looting specifications. This let us battle in our own ways and did not let outsiders interfere. It was grande!

The reason I purchased my town, one of the first 10 or 20 towns purchased, was because I wanted RP/PVP. Now however, after a couple yrs wait on the main mechanic that drew me to shroud, I find that it is severely broken. If you engage in guild warfare, not only do you opt to fight another guild, you flag yourself for open pvp. I find this most disturbing. Also, you have to pay to war someone, for a limited time and for rewards yet unknown, but rewards non the less, and can have outsiders come in and decide the fate of the battle. Again this is so wrong. I beg you reconsider on this format, as it is wrong.
I would recommend that you expand on the "dueling" feature. Make it also for guild warfare. That way no one could interfere. It would be balanced. Rewards would be kept and awarded for those who fought in the guild, not those who would ask for help outside the guild to come and ambush to make it a one sided victory. I have more but will post later as comments come in.

 

I haven't really tested at all but I would imagine that you would only be flagged for PvP against the guild that you are at war with.

In terms of the cost of going to war, i'm kind of sitting back to see what direction things go in.......this is only really the first initial take of guild warring and I would think there are more mechanics to go in. In terms of outside interference, that shouldn't happen in a non-pvp area unless its by a guild who is also at war with the same guild you are fighting.......if in a PvP area then your in a PvP area so its a free for all.

I can see how some might like it......not my cup of tea though.......feels very watered down and bland.

 

Thank you for your feedback Envy. The main thing for me, as wanting RP/PvP is that it is only war between the guilds you are at war with. Right now, if you war someone you are flagged for war with the other guilds, and ALSO flagged open pvp. This lets you be freely attackable by anyone in the world.
I also used to play on the Europa shard in UO with the RP guild BOC. We would war the other militias such as YEW and Trinsic

 

Thank you Chris. I do not like what you just said but I appreciate your answer. I really have to rethink my existence here now. I am not a developer or a person who knows code. I just know what I like and what I have had in the past. If we cannot come to some kind of agreement then I understand. What I do see right now is an unbalanced system and because its easy and can be exploited less, is still unbalanced, and not fun. I will try to find more feedback on what you request but on the technical side I am limited. I feel like I am being pushed out the door personally.

 

That design choice saddens me.

Otherwise, I really like the thought that went into both your explanation AND the entire concept. Thanks for a bit of a deep dive here (I guess a skim dive).

It seems the only option for guilds with this design is to have a guild that is pure pvp players only. Being able to get into 2 guilds would then allow a guild to have a pvp side to cover wars and the general guild they are part of. Unfortunately, that concept allows for major exploits as well (people joining both sides of a guild war).

 

Chris, the problems your describing seem like they're based off of blue healer mechanics. I don't think those should be in the game anyway, can't we just remove those and fix this? The whole idea about being able to attack people that are flagged open pvp is horrible. The idea that people can opportunistically heal friends flagged as PVP is also horrible. Why is this even in the game?

You should either be in pvp or not be in pvp. You shouldn't get to pvp ala carte. I feel like that's the only reason that "duel guilds" wouldn't work.

 

Good post chris, I'd like to add if you join a pvp guild who flags in guild warfare it's a buyer beware system. Pick your guild carefully based on your play style. There are a mix of people in this game some can't stand pvp and others who lay awake at night dreaming about it.

+1 for bloody messy pvp.

Side note: blue healers should be pulled into fair game once they jump in. So much more fun that way!!

Edit.. There's a reason why people still go nuts over Ultima Online. It caters to the hard core as well as the soft buy putting the choice in the hands of the player's (sandbox). Don't try and make a compromise system won't work neither group will like it.


After though sorry:
Let the player decided the guild, and the guild decide the level of pvp. I.e war vrs a small guild or many wars vrs many guild.

 

Not the design I expected but something I can certainly live with.

 

On the contrary, you have pushed me out of my guild because guild membership means implicit consent for PVP. I shall now explore the mechanics of being a meta guild member, whose guild membership is information that is withheld from the game.

 

I agree, kill the insta flag blue healer system. It is wrong from every aspect, and in my opinion game breaking.

 

I believe the way to get people to pvp is to create a fair playing field. Not to carrot and stick them to death.

For example, Rats Nest. I don't expect people to live there if the city works like this:


No one wants to be on the losing side of that. So I plan to attempt to offer reasonable safety where NPC guards (and other stuff) help to even the odds and make wandering gank squads a little less successful in the town. I mean if I wanted 100% safety I wouldn't make a PVP town!

My point is that in order to cultivate PVP, you have to create an environment where it's FAIR and the people playing want to be there. And news flash, people don't pvp so they can lose. That's the continuous theme that I feel like is missing from all these pvp related conversations. If you let people grind their way to godhood, well that's great for them but no one is going to go fight them unless they have a chance of actually winning! If you're going to offer single player online mode in a pvp zone, then no one is going to goto the risky pvp zone unless they believe they can win (which means they have a lot of people with them or they're really high level).

So the exact same thing is happening here in Guild vs. Guild. People that don't like PVP or are not ready to be in PVP (guild wars) are going to avoid pvp however they need to do that. You can't force it on them because even if they like it (like me) they're not going to go PVP if they know they're not going to have fun (which they're NOT because losing is not fun).

I honestly feel like this can't be spelled out any clearer than this.

 

Thank you, @Chris for the explanation. To me, this mechanic makes perfect sense. If I am going to attack one avatar, I am flagged for pvp and can be attacked by anyone. If I chose to attack a group of people (such as a guild) it only makes sense that you are opening up yourself to attack from any outside sources. Sometimes the simplest way to handle a situation is best. For the people who would like to do planned out guild vs guild battles, I would recommend adding both guilds to your friends list then all going into friends only mode to battle. Then you can all flag for pvp and not have to worry about outside interference. In fact, if two guilds wanted to war in this manner, you could follow the same protocol. Just don't have anyone on your friends list that would attack you on sight (outside of the rival guild, of course).

 

I guess one solution would be that guild warfare should only happen in pvp areas. Then at least you can attack anyone that looks like a threat. Right now I will not do guild wars with the way its set up. But I will attack from a blue non pvp mode for advantage and kill anyone thats low on health.

 

-1000

 

My most memorable moments in uo were random encounters, your suggestion destroys that. Hunting the enemies in town or where thier hunting is the way to go. Controlled areas will be the death of pvp in sota.

If ur warring with another guild, it's not confined to a single are but where u live hunt and eat.

 

You're making an incorrect assumption though. You're assuming that people that wouldn't normally pvp will somehow start pvping because their guild does. That's not how this is going to work. People are just going to not join guilds or leave the game.

It's like saying if only UO would've forced people to pvp more we wouldn't have had trammel. That would technically be true, but you may have had about 200k less people playing UO too.

 

no one will be flagged, everyone will be waiting to pounce on the lone individual that believes in the oracle. I see the death of pvp in sota already. They need to change the insta pvp feature.

 

That why you can have duels.

As soon as you go multiplayer then combat is never fair.......it quite simply is what it is......and that's why I along with many other from a more extreme PvP background love it.

 

Some people will pvp. The highest level players and groups of people that know they can win because they outnumber everyone else. But normal people, masses of people, they will not pvp in this system.