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Holy crap Batman!

Discussion in 'Release 39 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Barugon, Feb 18, 2017.

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  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    I just discovered this!

    [​IMG]

    Thanks Port. :)
     
    Barugon, Feb 18, 2017
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  2. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

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    Agree...excellent move.
     
    Bow Vale, Feb 19, 2017
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  3. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Now we just need to figure out what "Show name in public stats" means.
     
    Barugon, Feb 19, 2017
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  4. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    I hope it means that when you enter a PVP area your name is shown....but if you don't select that your name is never shown.
     
    Drocis the Devious, Feb 19, 2017
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  5. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

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    They really need to remove pvp players from local, even the ? is not good imo. It would encourage more fights if people felt safe in a zone to a degree, not having to watch local to see if any others have entered and would allow those hunting much more opportunity to get a fight/kill.
     
    Bow Vale, Feb 19, 2017
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  6. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    That would certainly make sense.
     
    Barugon, Feb 19, 2017
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  7. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Soon we will be turning on a publicly exposed data server for websites to pull from. By default you will be opted out and your information will be reported anonymously. We hope to have this live during R39 and definitely by R40.

    The data will be run on a ELK stack similar to what we use internally. Players and websites who are familiar with how to talk to ElasticSearch can request access and we'll expose it to them. Not all data we store will be going to the server. We will likely expose PVP information, vendor data, and various other data including probably some logs for specific PVE kills and rare drops. Websites will be able to query the data and build whatever type presentation they choose. We expect this will be a major way fan sites will be able to attract fans, by displaying game data in various ways.

    @Undone , our newest engineer is the wizard behind this so he might chime in with more info.
     
    Chris, Feb 21, 2017
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  8. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    This sounds interesting but also potentially troubling.

    If I understand this correctly, the database will be in aggregate. Which is fine.

    I don't quite understand how my data could be both "opted out" and "reported" at the same time. Either my data is available or it's not (even if it's anonymously aggregated). Are you saying that only if I opt into this will my data be used? (I don't think that's what you're saying) Are you saying there is a way to completely remove all of my data from this process? (I also don't think that's what you're saying)

    My biggest concerns would be as follows:
    1. Player account information would somehow be in this database. I assume that's not the goal and you'll make every effort to ensure this does not happen.
    2. Because we're a small community, the aggregate form of data is not enough to truly make any of this anonymous. For example, if you can search on individual accounts that have GM'd every skill in the Necromancy tree, then you can probably find out everything you wanted to know about my individual character through process of elimination. I don't like that. I don't want that. Please explain why this will not happen and the "PVP information" will not include searchable character types, skills, builds, etc...
    3. Also, I'm not sure what purpose it would serve to show things like "what builds do the most damage" etc....I guess the devil is in the detail here. I hope we're not going to give away too much information so that the game becomes a spreadsheet war. That type of data might be great for the most analytical of our community, but it will crush my personal immerssion in this game, and in order to compete at the highest levels one would assumingly have to get really good at querying this database.

    Thanks! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
    Drocis the Devious, Feb 21, 2017
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  9. Carlin the Druid Archer

    Carlin the Druid Archer Avatar

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    Hey Chris, this is awesome news. So, for Vendor Data will that be the vendors in a town and what items they stock?
     
    Carlin the Druid Archer, Feb 21, 2017
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  10. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    First off, we need to clarify that text for opting in as it is currently confusing.

    No private data at all will be visible to anyone using this even if you opt in. If you opt in, at most we will show your player name. No IP data, machine info, or any other data will be visible to people. Data will pretty much be Carlin killed BDF in Owlshead. No IPs, no usernames. Lastly, it is our server reporting this data to the public box so this can't be faked and won't expose you.

    Also, while this needed to go in the client now, the server isn't turned on yet. Before we turn it on we'll give everyone full information on it and make a big deal about it.
     
    Chris, Feb 21, 2017
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  11. Undone

    Undone Trap Master Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Hi everyone! Let me clarify a few points of what this is, and what this is not.

    As of now we internally log both "Location" and "Economy" events, which is to say we record things like player positions, where monsters were killed, where players were killed, where items were sold, etc. What I have been working on is making a good portion of this data available via an elastic API in the hopes that people more creative than myself can do some cool stuff with it.

    In regards to the anonymity: by default you are opted-out and the name of you player shows simply as "Anonymous". As an example here is some data for a PlayerKilledByMonster event on our dev server:
    Code:
    {
  "_index": "logstash-2017.02.20",
  "_type": "logs",
  "_id": "AVpd0yekvYUcvR4s6db_",
  "_score": null,
  "_source": {
    "ypos": "64.68",
    "zpos": "113.64",
    "xpos": "96.81",
    "@timestamp": "2017-02-20T23:20:06.000Z",
    "SceneName": "Novia_R5_Forest01_Rhun",
    "PlayerName": "Anonymous",
    "LocationEvent": "PlayerKilledByMonster",
    "Killer": "Obsidian Golem",
    "timestamp": "Feb 20 17:20:06",
    "Victim": "Anonymous"
  },
  "fields": {
    "@timestamp": [
      1487632806000
    ]
  },
  "highlight": {
    "LocationEvent": [
      "@kibana-highlighted-field@PlayerKilledByMonster@/kibana-highlighted-field@"
    ]
  },
  "sort": [
    1487632806000
  ]
}
    The important bits of information here are the zone and location. All other information pertaining to your character/account has been stripped out. Now if you were to opt-in the "PlayerName" field would show your player name and that would be the only difference. Client's are aware if another player is anonymous, so the data properly gets cleaned in PVP as well depending on who is marked anonymous and who is not.

    I should also note that this toggle takes effect immediately and is not retroactive. So any events you trigger while opted in will show in the logs. If you opt out, only logs from that point forward will be anonymous. Your previous logs (when you were opted in) will still show your player name.
     
    Undone, Feb 21, 2017
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  12. 2112Starman

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    E-P-I-C
     
    2112Starman, Feb 21, 2017
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  13. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Also, adding to Undone's comment, we haven't decided exactly what data we will expose to people but we'll figure that out during this release. We'll definitely expose PVP stats and probably some general vendor stats. Haven't decided what else but we will soonish(tm)!
     
    Chris, Feb 21, 2017
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  14. 2112Starman

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    Its going to be SOOO nice for more casual players like myself to look up sale prices on things to get a good idea about what to sell it out, will probably help fight inflation too!!!
     
    2112Starman, Feb 21, 2017
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  15. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Would it be too much to ask that each Anonymous player be globally unique (Anonymous_1, Anonymous_5682, etc) during a session, so we can distinguish attacks vs suicide jumps, vendors selling to or owned by different Anonymous players, etc?
     
    Browncoat Jayson, Feb 21, 2017
    #15
  16. Undone

    Undone Trap Master Moderator SOTA Developer

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    One o the potential pitfalls of this is that if that unique value ever gets associated with a player then their anonymity goes out the window.

    In regards to suicides there is a PlayerKilledBySelf event to track just that event =)
     
    Undone, Feb 21, 2017
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  17. Drocis the Devious

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    The example you gave wouldn't give me any concern by itself.

    But if you gave players the ability to search anything like this:
    • Show all active players with an average DPS greater than X.
    • Show all players that have GM or above in X skills and spells.
    • Show all players killed in Deep Ravenswood between 20:00 and 20:05 on 2/21/2017.
    • Show all players logging in after 20:05.
    • Show all character stats for players killed with timestamp "Feb 20 17:20:06".
    If there are very limited views of this information and you can't join them together to develop a new database of information that essentially tells a story about my individual character, I'm fine with that. But giving players in our small community the ability to pin point aggregated data using time and location seems like a relatively easy way to get whatever information you provide in aggregate to map out to individuals that may not want that data being shared about them (like me). If I kill you in Deep Ravenswood at about Feb 20 17:20:06, and can then link that information to unrelated datasets, that's where we get into the use cases I'd like to avoid. Like someone setting up a web app that creates an alert every time your enemy is in Deep Ravenswood, or every time they die it mocks them, or it statistically breaks down the best build to go against them. (i.e. "Just use a combination of 81 skill in fire arrow and GM Chain Lighning and you can't lose!")

    I think this database has awesome potential for good but could have horrible potential for evil as well. Let's please be very careful about the data we provide to the public.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
    Drocis the Devious, Feb 21, 2017
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  18. uhop

    uhop Avatar

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    Could you expose a master registry of who sells what where and at what price? It would help players a lot, and increase visibility of some out-of-way vendors (including public ones).
     
    uhop, Feb 21, 2017
    #18
  19. Undone

    Undone Trap Master Moderator SOTA Developer

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    We're not looking to expose that sort of data. As of right now we're only allowing specific event types to get passed into the public stack such as "PlayerKilledByPlayer", or "PlayerKilledBySelf". But if you are marked as anonymous then the data will not be of much use to anyone looking to do any sort of tracking. A lot of scenarios you describe above we do indeed track, but only for internal purposes.
     
    Undone, Feb 21, 2017
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  20. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Yeah, I wouldn't want a unique I'd per player, just in a given scene or session. I was thinking how many unique visitors a vendor gets, which would be difficult if they are duplicate text.

    KilledBySelf works for the combat one thing.
     
    Browncoat Jayson, Feb 21, 2017
    #20
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