How to make the new + system useful

Note: This is mostly changing of values within the existing system, not a rework.

Significantly edited from original post for clarity.

As I'm sure you've noticed, the +'s on all our gear has changed.

With this new change, every group of materials that goes into the the piece adds a +1.,making things like a basic iron dagger (which has 2 groups, a blade and a hilt) a +2 right out the door. For an Iron Dagger, this is a misleading representation of it's value.

And still, the same dagger, in Bronze, a much superior weapon, gets the same +2 as the iron one.

I applaud the attempt, but think it could be better. Here's my version (and if someone else said the exact same thing earlier, kudos, you get the credit, feel free to link to it):

This is based on several assumptions:

• We want to be able to quickly tell the quality of gear based on the number.
• Gear that has had a failure should have a lower number than the exact same piece without a failure.
• Going below zero isn't going to cause a div/0 that sucks Novia into a black whole.
• Zero (no + or -) is a great place to start, as it implies the item is neither above average, nor below.
• NPC gear is not a good baseline, as it has almost no place in the larger scope of the game.

With that, here are the rules:

Changed:

• Basic, non-exceptional crafted gear is a zero, and is the baseline.
  • Basic are items made with cloth, leather, iron, copper, maple, and pine.
• Exceptional adds a +2 instead of +1, since it gives 50 durability. **(see below re: smaller items)
• NPC gear is all -1.
  • This provides added information to new players, which is "Oh, this stuff isn't that great, I should look more closely at it and other gear"

Unchanged:

• Gear made with higher end materials gets a +1 for high end material group (No Change)
• Crafting failure gives a -1 since it subtracts 25 durability, balancing 2 failures with 1 exceptional. (No Change)
• Enchant/Masterwork Values Vary (No Change)

Consider:

• Major repairs give a -1.
• Perhaps Some Day: Add a "Used" prefix to anything once it's durability has dropped 1 point for the first time.

*To really get into the nitty gritty, each individual high end piece would add +1. An Augmented Carapacian Cloth Chest Piece could start out as a +13, instead of a +3. In some ways that makes sense, each piece is adding a little, but then we're in the super high numbers and Masterwork/Enchant/Exceptional/Fail number contributions must be rethought. We would have a lot of +50's at that point. I'm not advocating this, just pointing it out.

** A problem: failures on small items only subtracts 12 durability. That would mean they need to get a +4 for exceptional in order to balance the -1 of each durability loss, which is pretty extreme. On the other hand, it is a bigger durability addition proportionally, +50 to a 50 durability glove is a bigger deal than +50 to a 150 durability chest piece. I don't know the answer.

 

Why does using more then one component makes a item more valuable?
Also, i think that the +'es should count the improvements instead of components. The customers may came to the wrong conclusion that items that are made from as much different components as possible are more improved as others, without applying any improvement at all.

May the items get two numbers. One counts the improvements the other one how often a enchanted / masterwork can fail.

So a basis chest has 150 durability, that is 150 - 30 (item with 30 or less durability can not improved anymore) = 120 / 25 (each fail costs 25 durability) = 4.8 -> 4 enchantments / masterwork failures left.
An exceptional chest has 200 durability (+50), that is 200 - 30 = 170 / 25 = 6.8 -> 6 enchantments / masterwork failures left.

The +50 durability of exceptional items is more important for the ones that improve gear as for the enduser.
The enduser wants to know how much a item is improved. The crafter how often the item can be improved. That is why 2 numbers are more informative then fiddle everything in one.
Even when a masterwork / enchantment fails on a later stage the item is improved but can not improved as often anymore due its loss on durability. The adventure can make full use of such an item, but the crafter not anymore.

Items can be displayed as follow:
Pine Staff /2 = basis staff (100 durability)
Pine Staff /4 = basis staff exceptional (150 durability)
Pine Staff +1 /2 = basis staff + one masterwork (-20 durability) (80 durability)
Pine Staff +1 /4 = basis staff exceptional + one masterwork (-20 durability) (130 durability)
Pine Staff +2 /2 = basis staff + two masterwork (-20 durability*2) (60 durability)
Pine Staff +2 /4 = basis staff exceptional + two masterwork (-20 durability*2) (110 durability)
Pine Staff +3 /1 = basis staff + three masterwork (-20 durability*3) (40 durability)
Pine Staff +3 /3 = basis staff exceptional + three masterwork (-20 durability*3) (90 durability)
Ring /1 = basis ring (50 durability)
Ring /2 = basis ring exceptional (100 durability)
Pine Staff +4 = basis staff + four masterwork (-20 durability*4) (20 durability)
Pine Staff +4 /1 = basis staff exceptional + four masterwork (-20 durability*4) + one masterwork failure (-25 durability) (45 durability)
Pine Staff +4 /2 = basis staff exceptional + three masterwork (-20 durability*3) + one enchantment (-10 durability) (80 durability)
Pine Staff +4 = basis staff exceptional + four masterwork (-20 durability*4) + two masterwork failure (-50 durability) (30 durability)
Pine Staff +5 /1 = basis staff exceptional + five masterwork (-20 durability*5) (50 durability)
Pine Staff +5 = basis staff exceptional + five masterwork (-20 durability*5) + one masterwork failure (-25 durability) (25 durability)
and so on.


Set of basic cloth armor. No piece has +50 durabilty or is masterworked / enchanted:
Epic Trousers: 2 components | 2 effects = +2
Epic Glophs: 2 components | 2 effects = +2
Epic Shoes: 1 component | 1 effect = +1
Epic Chest: 1 component | 1 effect = +1
Epic Hat: 2 component | 2 effects = +2
Augmented quarter Chest: 2 components | 2 effects = +2

The customer should think the chest and the shoes are less improved then the other items? Even no item is improved at all.
Or that the shoes and chest has a failed masterwork / enchantment? Even it was never tried to do this.

Comparing the augmented quarter and epic chest for a mage:
Augmented quarter chest has +5% focus and +0,2% weapon damage
Epic chest has +10% focus.
You really thing give away +5% focus for +0,2% weapon damage is of more value, even it is a +2 item instead of a +1?

Would like to see no + on the item when there is no improvement made. Customers should have unbiased look to the item to see whatever fits there needs. But get a hint if there is a masterwork/enchantment aka improvement over the basic item is applied.

Current +1 system on staves:
-1 = three masterwork failures (25 durability)?
= two masterwork failures (50 durability)?
+1 = one masterwork failure (75 durability)
+2 = basic (100 durability) <- customer needs to know +2 is normal item and not two times improved
+3 = exceptional (150 durability, one improvement for crafters)
+4 = +1 masterwork (80 durability, one improvement for adventures)
+5 = exceptional, +1 one masterwork (130 durability, one improvement for adventures and one for crafters)
+5 = +2 masterwork (60 durability, two improvement for adventures)?

 

Before I read the rest, let me just say that I think I miscommunicated.

Each set of components, which appears to be the thinking of the developers right now, they could be the same type (although I'm not aware of anything that uses two different type of straps, or two different types of sheet, off the top of my head.)

So, it doesn't matter what they are, a +1 is currently being added for example in a plate chest

for the sheet
for the bindings
for the straps if they are there.

I am saying that the ones made from basic materials like leather, cotton, etc shouldn't be adding a +1 in this system, while the higher tier materials should. Regardless of which they are.

 

You can not use two different types of straps, bindings, etc. in one item. Have tried to mix different strap types to create one item, won't work.
Different components means here the amount of "parts" that a items is made of. Your plate chest example: if there are no straps it is a +2 item (made from two components) if there are straps it is a +3 item (made from three components).

The higher tier materials (when used as the main/base component) already change the name of the item. Epic cloth ... -> Caprican Epic Cloth ...
What is missing, if one uses higher tier material in sub-components. Like straps, bindings, etc.
A pine staff made with caprican straps still named pine staff...

I am not happy with the new + system. And want to add another approach to yours. Lets see/read what others think, can contribute.
Add something to the pool that people can think of.

 

I don't totally understand your system, but I see it is adding.

The thing with what I've written is that I haven't changed anything except the values, and the delineation between the tier of the crafting material.

Since the developers have a full plate, and this works within the already existing system, this is all I'm willing to put up as a suggestion at the moment.

 

The remaining durability is of different meaning for one who simple use the item and the one who want to further improve the item.
For the first one it is important "how much better" the item is compared to its basic version and a minimum durability left.
The second needs to look closer to the remaining durability because each enchantment and masterwork has a durability cost.

So a item with 4 improvement and 1 failure is still better then one item with 3 improvements for one who only use the item. But for one who wants to do further improvement may choose the item with 3 improvements over the one with the failure because of the remaining durability. In the current system both items have the same + number.

If the dev have a full plate, they better has leave the old system alone and simply do not add a + on failure.

However, one have many choices to create and improve an item. I would not try to express everything in one single number. It is better looking on the stats that a item has and think on your own if they are usable for you or not. May only count added effects.

 

I posted the following post in the R53 feedback and bug forum, but it's likely to be of interest here too.

If this is working as intended, then I recommend reconsidering those intentions. In my opinion, more distinct components does not deserve a higher "+" level. For example, unexceptional Epic Cloth Armor have the following "+" values:

+1 Cotton Epic Cloth Boots
+2 Cotton Epic Cloth Gloves
+2 Cotton Epic Cloth Helm
+2 Cotton Epic Cloth Leg Armor
+1 Cotton Epic Cloth Chest Armor

Why should Chest Armor (10 Bolts of Cloth) be lower "+" value than Gloves (3 Bolts of Cloth and 1 Cloth Strap)? It's even worse when comparing to other "styles" of cloth armor. For example, unexceptional Augmented Cloth Armor would have the following "+" values:

+2 Cotton Augmented Cloth Boots
+2 Cotton Augmented Cloth Gloves
+1 Cotton Augmented Cloth Helm
+3 Cotton Augmented Cloth Leg Armor
+3 Cotton Augmented Cloth Chest Armor

This system is going to be super confusing, especially for new players.

I appreciate the efforts to make the displayed "+" level reflect the value of the crafted items. But I would advocate for returning to the system before Friday's patch:

+1 for Exceptional Item (increased durability)
+1 for Socketing a Gem
+1 for Minor Enchantment / Masterwork
+2 for Major Enchantment / Masterwork
+3 for Enchantment associated with Socketed Gem
-1 for Failed Enchantment / Masterwork

Thank you for your consideration.

- Lao Tzu

 

I'm not a big fan of the current setup. But in all honestly the # has never been a good way to determine an items power. If you aren't going to change the +'s for each enchantment and masterwork (and since something can be strong for certain builds and weak for others, i don't see how you can), I wouldn't waste much time with it.

If I would change anything I would just have base materials give no plus at all, and t2 mats give a +1 for each sub group that contains a t2 material.