In regards to the "distracting" nature of the deck system:

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Strumshot, May 11, 2015.

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  1. Gypsy Lou

    Gypsy Lou Avatar

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    Right, they should be penalized if you're going to avoid the random system, otherwise, why have random at all?
     
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  2. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Disclaimer: I use only locked decks. :cool:

    Ok, maybe for Gustball I'll make an exception! :D
     
  3. MalakBrightpalm

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    On the one hand, this is a good question. Why have random at all? Many of us commented at the introduction that randomizing the UI in no way enhances gameplay, it is in fact a crippling device.

    Of course, the devs wildly imbalanced the numbers in the current system to make random the "superior" method, and even then many people hated it.

    However, punishing players for not liking your game is definitely a losing strategy. I can totally understand and get behind rebuilding the random system to make it more appealing, and I can even sympathize with the desire to somehow reward players for trying out the random system, but if you start punishing people for not enthusing over your idea, that really IS Fascism. It really is. If the random system cannot be made desirable enough to attract a significant player base, then let evolution take it's course, however grim or grisly it may seem, the ecosystem of SotA and online gaming will be better for it.
     
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  4. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    The first time I heard they were going to introduce random into the combat system I was very excited. I think is a brilliant idea with great potential.
    So in my opinion the random aspect is not the problem, for me the problem is the way it has been implemented.
    We were promised a clean GUI interface, and we have it, what they forgot to mention is how distracting that little Deck was going to be.
    It is distracting, too much distracting........lets see if the changes coming with R18 solve this situation or not.
     
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  5. Freeman

    Freeman Avatar

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    Two genuinely honest questions for you...

    1) What made you excited about it. Please give as much detail as you can. "It sounded different." Doesn't help me figure out what people might be finding interesting about this system.

    2) What would need to happen for it to not be distracting?
     
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  6. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    First of all I would like to point out that the Dynamic Deck system is at a very early and rudimentary state, I'm sure they are aware of that and they
    are working on it. It also seems that at the moment they are more concerned about creating anti macro mechanics, setting fun aside for now.

    So back to your questions...
    1) What made me excited about the random aspect of combat mechanic?

    What made me excited about the random aspect of the combat system was the vision I had , which is quite different from Port vision.​
    I had a vision about random draws allowing players to combine glyphs on the fly to create combos.( !fun yes, lot of fun!)​
    A vision where combos were a extension of the crafting system, allowing players to discover new combos with different glyph combinations.​
    (allowing a real classless system, total freedom selecting your skills).​
    A vision where little UI was necessary, where you would have to rely in your previous experiences, memory and mental reflexes.​

    2) What would need to happen for it to not be distracting?

    In my vision you get random cards but there is no auto discard. This is your hand use your glyphs wisely, new cards come only when you use a card or when you discard one. Combo is sequence based, you have to play the right cards in the right sequence to perform a combo, this way the random aspect has a real effect in final combat result. You could assign a skill to a key so you don't need to stare at your Deck to find out what key you have to press. Still Random and still have to pay attention to what cards you have, but removing the random slot and the auto discard from the recipe, definitely, a lot less distracting.​
     
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  7. Freeman

    Freeman Avatar

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    @Borg

    What makes you think it's at an early state? Since it's been in development for 2 years at this point. Just curious as to how long you think it should take to flesh this idea out.

    Also, based on your concept that comb is sequence based, why would that need to be a deck based system, couldn't something more like Dragon Age's, or Divinity's Original Sin system accomplish the same thing?
     
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  8. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    I don't think they have worked 2 years in the combat system, the basic mechanic is ready but if they want it to work they have to find a way to make it fun
    what obviously is not atm.

    Deck isn't necessary in my vision, it is basically a way to control what we can do, so I don't think they are going to remove it.
    Everything in this game is being made with a central idea in mind, control to avoid macroing.
     
  9. TantX

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    If this game is popular enough, someone will find a way to make a macro for it. Anything repetitive and/or difficult will get people to work on those kinds of 3PPs.
     
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  10. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    Yep they are trying to avoid macroing but when you create repetitive aka grinding mechanics, no matter what you do, scripts will appear for sure.
    Nowadays there are a lot of scripting utilities veryyyy easy to use and very powerful out there.
     
  11. TantX

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    I imagine if they made the game less grindy, there would be less incentive to macro. It isn't the mechanics, necessarily, but the gameplay that makes people loathe "the grind". Take the grind out of it.
     
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  12. MalakBrightpalm

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    This will probably sound like sacrilege to some, but SOMETIMES I like to grind. Just to log on to my highly advanced character, and know that I am lord of all I survey, to pick a spot with monsters I enjoy fighting, and charge in the door banging a large spoon on the inside of an empty pot, letting them know that I'll take them all just as fast as they can respawn. This of course is only possible if the combat is fun.

    While I am a proponent of reducing grind-based progression, I don't think that removing the CAPACITY to grind is quite as nice a solution as improving the fun level of combat.
     
  13. Freeman

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    They began work on it 2 years ago when they first said what the combat system would be. They have been doing tweaks and such for a while, with no major movement. In all estimation they had delivered every part of what they planned several months ago, and now have to roll back the 'deckness' of it all to try and make it fun. Most people who are saying "I like the deck combat" all point to things like you do, things that are not deck related. No one is saying "get rid of combos" or "keep the crappy animations". We're saying the deck system adds nothing at best, and detracts/undermines combat at worst and thus is not a good investment of time that they don't have over other options.

    This is my frustration when people take up a contrary position to complaining about it. Most of them would be fine without decks, or are misunderstanding what the actual complaint is.

    The deck system supposedly had an extra feature of being hard to macro (unless you use a mouse trainer, in which case, never mind...) but really, it was all about keeping you paying attention to combat and not just going on auto-pilot. They want to achieve that by making sure you never get comfortable with what skills you have, or what key does what.

    You may think it's here to stay, but if you don't like it you should still say so. Clearly. Concisely. Because honestly, there's a chance it isn't. But not if too much more time passes. They're doing a 3 release push to make it fun... If the deck part isn't fun... If randomized skills aren't fun... If they don't add anything to your game.... say so. Now. You're not doing them any favors by crossing your fingers and trusting them to figure out if people like it. You have to say so.

    If you do. Great. I still don't get why, and would ask again. What is it about decks do you like?

    And when I say 'they' I mean 'some' of the dev team. Others are/were skeptical. Others had to be convinced it 'could' work, and there was lots of talk that it will be removed if it doesn't live up to expectations. It's OK to say it's not your bag.

    As for macroing, I think you over estimate their focus on that. It's a thing I'm sure. But a game designed to keep macros from being easy to implement means a game that keeps players from having an easy time playing it. The harder it is to automate, the harder it is to use. How much trouble is macroing worth if no one enjoys the gameplay?
     
  14. Sir_Hemlock

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    Absolutely agree. Also agree there is a chance the combat system could be changed.
     
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  15. Sir_Hemlock

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    Malak, I agree wholeheartedly. I like to grind games like that too. Lets drink to becoming level 100 terminators :p
     
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  16. Sir_Hemlock

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    Well... we'll wait and see
     
  17. Borg

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    I already said many times I don't like Deck system, and the reason is simple it is not fun at all for me having to stare at Deck to know what key I have to press and having to manually manage those little glyphs popping up every few seconds. This is exactly the purpose of this thread " the distracting nature of Deck system". I tested Dynamic Deck for a whole month and I didn't like it, I play only Locked Deck now.

    About macroing, I'm not over estimating their focus on it, everything in the combat and skill system is designed with antimacroing in mind, and yes I agree with you, as I already posted in other threads, antimacro measuers always are in detriment of fair players and fun.
     
  18. Borg

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    I'm also wondering what does 100% positive reviews mean exactly......
    Lets wait and see.......
     
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  19. Strumshot

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    He is 100% positive they are reviews! :)
     
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  20. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    ROFL!!!!
     
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