Insurance ?

My question is simple, Item Insurance yes or no ?

I personally love the idea of item insurance in a full loot world because its expensive if you die a lot, and if your not careful you lose the items anyway, as i have done at some times in the past in UO.

Will it be in this game? and what do you all think about it?

 

Really? Tram, Insurance, all those things took SO much away from UO.

Another Tram Idea ...

Let me make these assumptions... and im not saying they are negatives... just yoru game play style.

#1 you dont like to pvp, or at least open world pvp, die loose items etc.
#2 chances are you will be playing the SPO, FPO portions of the game
#3 then when you get good enough and you want to gank people with NO risk, no skin in the game, you want to insure your items, log into the OPO world and then gank people with NO risk.

Really dude? Cmon You can already play only WITH friends in this game... meaning you can play this game online like Diablo... and NEVER see pvp... why would you need insurance???

Insurance is called WoW all all those other clones that came along with it.

My question for you and anyone who is + for insurance.

Ever play WoW or all these other games, and get a player who is a FKn JERK... either by what he says or what he is doing... AND you cant do nothing about it? Do you know why people do that? because they have no skin in the game.

They can do and say what they want (within the game TOS not to get banned) but still make your day a living hell, waste of time to log in... and you cant make them STOP. Neither can a GM if they are abiding by the TOS. No game TOS has a "if hes a jerk we will ban him" rule.

That is accomplished by "skin in the game".... your a jerk? ohhh ok... you wait... for that perfect moment till he gets out of town, out of guards range, and BAM make him STOP being a jerk.

SO NO INSURANCE PLEASE people stop trying to make WoW part 2

 

So when you find an awesome item, or craft some perfect one, do you use it or store it in the bank? never to be used! or just put it on display at home.
Or you think yeah, I'm an Awesome PvP player and NEVER die.
so you don't mind loosing it then?
LOL
I asked for opinions so you made your point, but don't make assumptions about peoples play styles, are you really so narrow minded.

 

There should be no insurance because this is not UO or remotely like it, this is like Ultima, In Ultima there was never any risk of loosing items. Looting should be limited to gold & resources without insurance.

 

IMO item insurance destroyed UO crafting. I like Eve Online insurance system since you still lose items and it doesn't replace the full value, so won't object to that system.

 

Stevro - I think you're looking at it wrong when you mock the boards about never using a great weapon. What a great weapon means is great care should be implemented when taking the weapon into dangerous situations. This means you need to be friendly with people and have a ready supply of fellow combatants that will go out into the wilderness with you. If you don't like the idea of not being able to take your most valuable weapon out at night by yourself then I think you're looking at the wrong game. Sorry buddy but once someone's past the newbie stage if they want to reap rewards they will need to have some risk. Don't get me wrong it sucks sometimes to lose all of your best item but the rushes you can get escaping or actually taking out the PKs makes it all worth it.

 

Item insurance isn't needed, if the weapons from quests isn't substantially greater than crafted weapons.

Once you create in game non crafted items that are far greater than crafted items, you hit a problem. Basically people want those items protected from PKs. If you don't then there is no need to do quests, as the items just get locked away and never used.

 

I don't like the concept. My preference would be that most places in the game things don't drop on death, but the places that do should for everyone.

Someone getting the double advantage of both better gear and not having it drop seems unfair on many levels.

 

There were daring PKers/Anti-PKers that always used their best gear. I usually would not wear my best gear if I was out soloing. It was for special occasions like tournaments and PvP events where I had a group. That is why my best gear had meaning.

The only thing I would want insurance on is my clothes so I don't have do the walk of shame back to the bank and at least look somewhat familiar when i went back out on the battlefield.

 

I think a lot of us are getting ahead of ourselves with talks like this.

1: We don't even know how the death system will work. Will we leave bodies, how do we get back to our bodies, what we will even drop to begin with...

2: We don't even know who will be in the same instance as us. As it stands all we know is that even if you choose OPO you could be out in the middle of nowhere hunting and some one else would have to enter the same tile and instance as you and get past the world filters, and even then we don't even know the exact amount of people possible to be in the same instance, right now its only hinted at several dozen at most.

3: We don't know how the item/armor system will work. In the early days of UO I just had stacks of the same armor sitting in my house/bank and when I died I just replaced it. But now every RPG I play you build a special set of armor that I attempt to never lose. Personally I liked the UO days where after I maxed blacksmithing I had a reason to keep making more stuff because I INTENDED to die and lose it, just to replace it. I like that mindset because it places less importance on gear, where EVERY game out there seems to be focused on how to get the next best item that you will use forever. But again we still don't know how this will all play out.

So yea its fun to talk about, but a LOT of discussion about topics like this are pointless because they are based on system designs we still know nothing about.

 

Apparently there will be no player looting, so I don't think players will lose their gear on death.

BTW, the reason for that is apparently that some gear will take too much effort to craft/earn/customize, so allowing players to easily lose that gear is too punishing.

Of course it's still early in the design process, so things could change.

I prefer no gear loss on death myself; other ways can be found to keep crafters occupied, such as requiring crafted (and consumable) repair kits to repair gear instead of simply paying a bit of gold to a NPC.

 

I don't like the idea of no player loot for the simple fact that the fear of dying is greatly diminished. I understand that the death can cost more if your loot is better but that is a level of detachment and gold doesn't carry the same emotional response as a unique piece of gear. Additionally without full loot where is the incentive to rush back to your corpse? Some of my most frustrating/rewarding experiences solo video gaming outside UO was Demon Souls. If you haven't played this game you'll never understand how frustrating a game can really be (that is not glitched) but when you died you had once chance to get back to your corpse, with half health, and loot it without dying or else that corpse disappeared meaning you lost EVERYTHING.

Attn: Devs. If you really want to do no player loot (outside of PVP, I'll commit seppuku if there is no full loot in PVP) lets at least build an item sink where players have to loot their own corpses without dying again. While this sucks it is an adventure to get back to your corpse and will force people to interact. Imagine assembling a group at the bank after dying, paying them like mercenaries to go help you retrieve your corpse, and adventuring into the dungeon together. These sort of events build comradery and friendships.

 

@Illesac: I love Dark Souls (never played Demon Souls because I don't like consoles), which seems to use a similar way to handle death penalty (though without the half health part). This changes my gameplay in a couple ways:

- When recovering my corpse I go absolutely slowly, doing everything I can to kill every enemy without giving him a chance to fight back. It's far safer than how I usually play, but unbearably boring.

- Whenever I have a good number of souls, I just go to some easy place and start farming until I get the number of souls needed for the next upgrade I want. After purchasing the upgrade - and thus bringing the number of souls down to an amount I wouldn't mind losing - I resume playing normally. Absurdly boring, though.

In other words, the risk merely makes Dark Souls more boring to me.

The same would likely be true if I played any other game with such steep death penalties; I would restrict myself to only doing absolutely safe things, never taking any unnecessary risks, and get bored with the game far faster due to that. My preferred play style is absolutely reckless, trying to see all the time how much I can tackle and still prevail, which is not in any way compatible with harsh death penalties.

BTW: when I play Dark Souls I set an "internet kill switch" that I can hit less than a second after noticing an invader, causing any invader to time out and drop from my game (unless he can kill me in one hit before I notice I have been invaded). I really can't stand the non-consensual PvP added to the game (though invasions seems to be far rarer in the PC version anyway because of the fully consensual arena, most players itching for a PvP match go play there).

 

Insurance is a terrible idea. It's not FUN to lose items, but it's NECESSARY for the overall economy. I do not want to have people who spend 8 hours in a raid (a la WoW) have an advantage. Losing items, repairing items, etc. keeps crafters relevant and money flowing.

I don't know if I like the idea of corpse runs anymore, as sometimes it's impossible to retrieve your corpse from certain dungeons, but I DO like the idea of other players looting your stuff because again, it keeps the economy flowing and makes it so you're not attached to your gear.

 

I have played a number of games including old UO for a bit. I was never in UO with insurance or any changes so I can't comment on them.

Calling out people and telling them to play WOW is not constructive. We are all here to play this game and help make this game the best it can be. That includes advocating for our desired positions, regardless of what those positions are.

Personally having been in games with full looting, games with full loss even without looting (or at least most loss - EVE) and the like, I think insurance can make a lot of sense. _IF PROPERLY HANDLED_

Basically in my opinion, it can be made to work very simply. Say you have a sword of awesomeness +10. This took you days if not weeks to obtain. You want to make sure that a casual random fubar doesn't invalidate that days and weeks of work.

You insure it.

You die. You get your sword back (possibly damaged heavily but it is back in your hands). You go to insure it again. Wait... the cost went up? Ok, you pay it.

Eventually you don't take as much risks with the sword as the price of insurance goes up and up and up.

Basically it builds in a negative feedback without being so extreme as to make it unlikely people will ever use the cool stuff.

 

I've said this before , but I think full loot PvP is actually kind of silly. If I'm in combat, I hate having to loot corpses and don't even like a loot roll popping if when I'm focusing on something infinitely more important. The is that you're really going to stand over a dead body spending 10 minutes stripping off his cloths digging through for something that might fit just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

@Elvish Dragon
Your sword example it really the only reason that I support the idea of full loot. If the sword gives you an advantage, it should come with a risk. If there is such thing as an epic sword in the game, then you should be forced to repeatedly "taste fresh blood" with it or lose it.

But gear that isn't particularly rare of valuable and doesn't imbalance PvP...I just don't care either way if it's lootable. The only reason to loot someone is just to annoy them and I'm not sure that adds much value to the game.

 

@PrimeRib, the negative feedback element is something that is often forgotten about on both sides.

From the PvP side, people often complain about non-consensual PvP because in most games, people become real dicks about it. I can immediately identify what is lacking in those games is real negative feedback on the actions. If we wanted to properly create a full open world PvP system that could work well, you would have to basically mark someone who commits random acts of murder. Not once, not as a way so their friend can come along and claim the bounty, but for life. Start committing acts of murder, society doesn't want you and will act to protect itself from you. Like in real life.

From the PvE side, death becomes meaningless, in some games I will actually die just to put myself in a more strategically adventitious position. Ponder that one for a while... dying meant I was /better/ off. [swtor is notorious for this when solo PvEing, want to get past a group of NPCs, run past let them kill you and sneak past while in rez stealth]

Neither of these options are good. Neither of these have an appropriate feedback loop.

 

I didn't like Item Insurance in UO.
Actually I think I was better off without it.
I would die all the time and lose all my money through insurance.
I think it was cheaper to go get the resources and have someone make whatever it is that you lost.

There are a few items I wish I could of gotten back in UO.
My boat was one of them after someone sailed away with it.
So later when they would let you recall to your boat from a key, I thought that was a good idea.
Maybe a few of your most valuable items should have something like that so you can try and get them back.

 

Love of gear is the root of all evil. If replacing gear is cheap and easy, we don't need to worry about things like insurance.

Do you insure your socks?

 

@Owain: *LOL* that was beautiful. However to flip the coin so to speak, I also don't see the drive to spend days or weeks to get a new pair of socks. The quest for the magic sword is one of the oldest fantasy trope... think of the sword and the stone.

We are driven to interface with the world through our possessions. It is a part of the human condition. It is in part why stretch goals with items tend to do really well on kickstarter. Now from the spiritual point of view, you are right, but I don't think many, if any of us are enlightened to that point, I think items will be coveted.