Is a discussion of the impact of economic issues in the game bad?

Since I raised the issue of this games exorbitant fees within the game, such as housing, crafting, resurrecting, etc., negatively impacting people who aren't able to afford such fees within and outside of the game, I got some people upset. Are we not allowed to make negative comments about the economy of the game and it's impact? Why are negative comments taboo? I would love to see a detailed comment explaining what is wrong with that?

 

I don't see an issue with discussing positive and negative areas of the game - and everyone does it repeatedly (example: read some of the really negative threads on PVP). There was a rather long and heated discussion just the other day about the ridiculous Tax Amounts - particularly since many have paid real $$ (and more than $1000 for some) to support the game by purchasing Add On Store Lots only to get stuck with rather high taxes on them. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f.../200-gold-per-day-in-taxes.44775/#post-497384

What is sad to realize is that many forum members will attack what you say no matter what it is. For some they are always right and everyone else is always wrong. For others who can't see past a clone of UO, it's heresy to say anything negative about the game. And then there are the ones who still try to have their voices heard amidst the more vocal, rude members and feel it's quite appropriate to comment on both positive and negative aspects of the game.

Don't let it get you down. I would encourage you to voice your opinions if you choose to in the forums - just make sure you don't have thin skin however or you will be eaten alive.

 

Thank you amaasing, your words ring true. I, for one, do not have a thin skin. Which, apparently we cannot say for many who also have an undue amount of weight around here. That said, my original comment simply said that all these fees, and even necessity to purchase game items in the real world, makes it very difficult for someone with a lesser income (in real life) to get along. I have purchased additional items and have paid my pledges, but I don't have thousands to give to the game, or to buy the items that would make play so much better. I just wonder how this will translate when the game goes live, and should the gamers we know be let in on the facts?

 

If it makes you feel any better I have brought this up before. I think the average joe will be behind the 8 ball in the game....especially when some of these lots that some members will claim then sell will put them at king like ransoms.

 

I've brought up all the taxes and limited bank space before as well. But most people here have paid in to EXEMPT themselves from those ingame costs and storage limits so many of them either don't see the problem or don't care - they're OK.

Try being a crafter and trader on an adventurer level pledge come release. You're not going to be able to compete. =P

 

Just like rune said, it is ok to bring up topic that is not popular, but try not to make it look like you're being a jerk about it. It's one thing to genuinely want to discuss about in-game fees which bar people from making progress. It's a different story when you baited it like "Oh! this game is only for rich people, " which in turned upset some people and escalated the topic into flame war. This is when the moderators will step in and douse the flame.

For those who pledged lower than ancestor, I can see that will be a challenge to gain a foothold on this game since the Row lot deed in-game cost at 60K gold, which will be quite a challenge consider how many slot you get on the bank. Also, not being able to zone to your "HQ" after a hunting session can be a drag.

If one were to pay for the row deed on the add-on store, it would make a huge difference. At the point the "taxes" wouldn't be too bad.

 

Those who have spent up big in the Add-On store are actually at a disadvantage because they have more items in their bank than they have slots for. That makes their bank "withdraw only", and useless for storing anything new. During the release of the land rush, until they can place a lot, people in that situation only have their personal inventory as a place to store stuff (unless they have an alt to provide some additional inventory space).

Those who spend more aren't always better off.

 

Um, with a property bank spaces aren't that important.

 

You'll note that I wrote "During the release of the land rush, until they can place a lot" - during that release most people will be playing for several weeks without the ability to place property as they wait for their turn. I imagine it will be quite difficult to gather resources beyond the first day if you have no place outside your inventory to store them.

 

I've repeatedly played the game with a basic adventure account ($45 or half that in STEAM sales).
Which is of course just like how a vast majority of players will experience the game.

It's not as bad as the OP says. Getting up to over 100 banking slots was accomplished in the first few hours.

Earning gold and XP progression was faster since one don't waste time on deco and such stuff.

The only big drawback was the conveniance of crafting stations next to chests/bank and indestructible tools.

But you don't have to own property of your own to have access to all the advantages of properties.
There are a lot of social players who will use their stuff for the public good. So just by looking around you can easily find such spots.

For instance in Lux Sanctuary it is already planned and geared for the majority without property of their own.

Public Crafting Area with all stations + printing press + banker and crafting NPC merchant conveniently right next to it.
Public Gardens for agriculture which visitor can use. (When implemented by Portalarium, currently they are not working).
Etc.

Residents without property can use the Dormatory Basements and the communal Farmers' Fields. To get housing and farming of their own.
Etc.


No need to own that stuff. Keep the cash/gold for something better and use some generous schmuck like me to get that for free.

...and I'm definately not alone in planning/doing such stuff.


TLDR
Will pledgers have advantages?
-Hell yes that is how you get Crowd Funding. Without that this game would not happen.

Are those advantages unsurmountable?
-Hell no. Not compared to the basic commodity of "time spent in game".

Which experience was most rewarding?
- starting from scratch and earning it all was much more rewarding and fun.

 

I play the game with a 45 dollar pledge as well @Spoon and it is a LOT harder then the character I had with a ton of stuff from backing. I start with literally nothing. Anything you get in game is earned, you have no armor.

How will communal fields work? First come first serve? I haven't seen them yet.

I think you really are at a disadvantage to earning enough to matter in this game.

 

The real advantage comes not from the size of your pledge, but the number of hours that you are able to play the game. Pledge rewards are of little practical benefit compared to the advantage gained from achieving a higher skill level.

 

And I started on an Explorer pledge in R20, upgrading to Citizen in R23. So I went for an entire three-month wipe period working out of my bank slots.

I mostly worked out of Solania for various reasons, including that it was (much) smaller than Ardoris. But especially because the run back to the bank (especially when you forgot that one item like a tool or ingot mold!) was shorter.

And you can add like 50 slots to your bank quite easily with gold, 10 at a time. It gets more expensive after that point, though. So someone would have to go really nuts with AOS to have bank problems during Final Wipe. It also helps that the pledge reward "shipping boxes" are now implemented, so there aren't a dozen Artisan tools taking up space when you are only supposed to get one, etc.

Doubled rewards also happened for various reasons, extra lot deeds from pledge upgrades, extra sets of things pushed by Port when a few people had a problem, etc. (Arguably that was even a good thing, because it spread them around so that more people could test things for a couple of months.)

but to get sort of back on topic...

And you are still trolling, even if you don't realize it, by using the word "exorbitant" as a premise without any proof. (This, by the way, is the real meaning of "begging the question".)

The lot taxes, as currently implemented, are quite reasonable. 50/day for a row lot, 400/day for a city lot. During the previous three months, I was able to accumulate 1 million gold (about 11000/day) by processing resources (ingots, leather, etc.) and selling them on the Public Vendor. Admittedly I may have a bit of a talent for it, including already knowing how to manage limited sale slots (FFXI gives you seven total, SotA gives you five per city), but the magnitude of my income was a lot more than lot taxes.

The main point of the lot taxes is to keep people from squatting on housing lots when they are not actively playing the game. Apparently UO is still full of houses left by people who stopped playing years ago. But that lesson has now been learned.

Most people will need to pay into their taxes at least once a month. Pledge backers with tax-free lots get a much longer time to ignore their lots, but if they don't log into the game every 4-6 months (or have a designated person tickle the lot properly), it will still eventually get pulled. Money sink is a secondary effect of this, but I think that bumping unused lots is so much more important that the tax amount shouldn't be set for money sink purposes.

Now if you can list actual other examples of things you have a problem with and why you think they are wrong, please do so. But listing a bunch of things with "etc." does nothing to explain what you think are "exorbitant fees". It's basically shouting "THAT'S WRONG" instead of making a suggestion of what you think would be right.

 

I have to agree with @rune_74 on this. Not being able to have a house where you can zone and store your loot did significantly slow people down, especially the new people who don't know what the paths around. It wouldn't be a big deal if people were kindly asking for advice (instead of being jerks) as there are plenty of veteran players who are willing to help getting them started.

The new /stuck location totally threw me off my pre R26 plan, which I had to mitigate by putting my row lot in Ardonis instead. Zoning will go away, /stuck location may change again, so the game plan would be changed in the future.

At some point once the high level pledges expire, I think the staffs will need to put higher priorities on new players especially the starting quests and some sort community reach out to get them hooked to the game. I have to admit that I still have a hard time playing the starting quests without asking help from other players. I might be able to get pass blood river massacre if I spent enough time search all the items everywhere on that scene, but ain't body got time for that! Imagine those who doesn't use IRC or forum frequently, get into the starting quest right now. They would be likely to negative review for their bad experience at this stage.

So yeah, there are still plenty of rooms for improvements once the game mechanics have been implemented to the point where they only need to focus solely on contents.

 

Oh hell yes. And there's also a need to keep current. Someone who, say, played R14-R19, and went off to do something else until Final Wipe, will be in a lot worse position than me, who played from R20-R25 (seriously trying to see what I could accomplish in three months, too), simply because so much is changing all the time. Perhaps even a few days per release could be enough to make a big difference.

I'm only now after six months starting to use the deck system. And it took me three months just to figure out how to enter an island PoT, which wasn't much longer than how long it took to figure out those overworld ferry boats.

Zone as we know it now is going away (as you have said), so that's not really a good argument. And using /stuck that way is an exploit. I've suggested that they make it simply return you to the location you entered the overworld, which is how it works inside a scene, and has very little exploit potential and can't let you bypass control point areas.

As for the starting areas, after Final Wipe nobody will be in a hurry to place a lot, because even the first window is hours after R32 goes live. There is no reason to rush, so take your time, stop and smell the pumpkin patch.

 

That's a key here is that the main stream players (the future $45ers) could be those who are used to playing games like WoW/Guild War/ESO style, where they go in, accepts the quests, travel to the markers, complete the quests, then come back to get rewards/XP, bang bang bang!. Unless someone inform them how to take their time to enjoy this game (to take time and explore the lore, etc.) and give some tips on how to gain their foothold in New Britannia, it's going to be tough to have fun with it.

 

Except that the starting area is the first quest. If they're playing just to finish the content, then they have to complete the first areas, right? "Take your time" was meant specifically for the people who have been so hot to place lots right after a wipe, bang bang bang.

 

Time will show how things will unfold, but at this point I see backers (including me ) at Citizen + level pledge as an elitist group. Even small pledge bonuses can affect final SOTA economy ballance and put new players into disadvantage. Possibly difference between power gamers with and without pledges would diminish after some time, but there is potential to loose big chunk of newcomers on the way.

 

Correction, we all start with armour, regardless of pledge level. And I'm still using mine given to me (from the gypsy tutorial).. the cloth and the chainmail are perfectly fine.. I'm still wearing mine!

 

Spoken like a rich person, I guess suggesting I'm a jerk is ok though... for you...