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Is a discussion of the impact of economic issues in the game bad?

Discussion in 'Release 26 Feedback Forum' started by Keyman, Feb 2, 2016.

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  1. Snikorts

    Snikorts Avatar

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    I see it as another version of "pay to win" model, but SOTA's one is a bit more expensive and exclusive :p
     
  2. Drocis the Devious

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    Well I think that's very short-sighted. I wrote a lot more than just that quote and I think I detailed exactly how that's not the case. I find it difficult to believe that your opinion is capable of being changed by any facts or support regardless of how thoughtful they might be if your reaction is to simply say the equivalent to "I still think the earth if flat."

    Have a good day, sir.
     
  3. HoustonDragon

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    The only real "pay to win" at this point really goes back to the housing, imo, simply because the non-taxed lots, and the ability for the early backers to place more quickly than others. That's not unreasonable though, since that's why they paid to back the game originally. As for the add-on stuff, I'm really not too worried about it. Will there be a slight advantage? Maybe for certain things, but even cool stuff like the Star Citizen polearm still has durability to consider, and can be damaged over time using it.

    It's not enough of an issue personally for me to get too riled up about. Every game (single player to MMO) always has to take time and effort into consideration, and those who have loads of free time will always have a head start over someone who plays casually. It really depends on what your goals are for the game, and what you personally find enjoyable.
     
  4. Keyman

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    I've been told that using the word "exorbitant" is "trolling" so where does using the word "jerk" in reference to another player come down at??
     
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  5. Keyman

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    There are many people who love football, they love THEIR football team. Anyone criticizing that team can expect to receive anything from a dirty look to actual assault. There are people in this forum who simply will not accept ANY SORT of criticism... the game is perfect no matter what happens and if you disagree, they retaliate and attempt to get you thrown off and have your critical posts removed. There is no honor for those who conduct themselves that way, who attempt to silence someone else's opinion, who try to censor and intimidate, especially from behind a computer screen. I expressed an opinion, you don't have to like it, rich people don't want to hear poor people whine... people who have undue influence with the moderators and producers in this game can exert their influence... go ahead, you have no honor in my eyes.
     
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  6. Snikorts

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    Let's hope that I am wrong and you are right!
     
  7. HoustonDragon

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    Where did you get trolling from? You're certainly entitled to have your opinions (since we all have our owns as well), just that declarative statements need to be backed up. What's outrageously expensive to me doesn't always mean the same for others, and vice versa.
     
  8. Spoon

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    So let's see here.
    1
    We all get moderated when we break the forum rules. Sometimes the moderation is too lenient sometimes it's too harsh. It goes with the territory of having volunteer moderators.
    Since it is volunteer then most moderation will be after getting reported. Those are the ones they have to follow up on.
    When I first came to these forums I came from a much more straight forward forum culture. It took me a while, plenty of moderation and a couple of warnings before I got my bearings.
    (Especially since my country don't have the same quirks as the U.S.).
    2
    When you are not breaking the forum rules you are not being silenced at all. Quite the opposite since we are having this dialog.
    3
    The game nor the devs are perfect. Far from it. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't disagree with them on something or report a bug or suggest an improvement.
    Don't get me started on the web site or their so called FAQ.
    But! For the kind of game I'm looking for and which was advertised they are doing much much more right than they do wrong. Im having much more fun in this than in games with x10 the budget. But that is a matter of taste.
    4
    Why i disagree with you is because I've actually played as a base pledger. I usually do that every cycle to see how it is.
    For you to dismiss that experience with no counter arguments shows that you are trying to vent feelings and not present issues and solutions.
    Yes a lot of players are going to be pissed at the business model. Some rightly so. However that business model is going to attract others.
    Haven't met any EVE players who hasn't made a killing in SotA. While I have met plenty of WOW players having difficulties or rage quitting.
    Not laying any value in that other than that different games cater to different markets. And if you are a small indie title you better aim for a niche cause in mainstream every AAA title will be better.
    5
    Bank slots are cheap for gold. Cost on that is probably going to go up not down or at least the curve steepening. Not that you need more than 100 anyway for a decent crafting career and less so for your basic killing machine.
    6
    You need to think about the economy 6-12 months after 'launch'. How much will a 100 LvL char get in income? If you make the game too easy regardless of pledges and add ons this is going to be a very short lived title.
     
  9. Drocis the Devious

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    Me too. I don't really like the starting gear from pledges because I have different tastes in the way they look. They're really not much better than anything else out there. The cloth clothes I get from just starting the game are actually better in some ways as they provide small bonuses to my Focus points.

    I usually run around the game in those clothes with whatever I pick up off the ground as weapons for the first 20 levels or so before I have enough gold to just start buying whatever I want. I can totally understand how some people would look at the pledge rewards and assume that if they don't have those things they can't function the same way, but that's not true in practice.

    Someone should probably make a good video showing that's the case.
     
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  10. StrangerDiamond

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    Hmm hmm... I guess the only pay to win here is if your definition of winning is getting a prime vendor spot to get gold or that you expect to sell in game housing for real cash down the road.

    That would actually ruin the whole definition of game... when a game becomes a way to make more money, it really isn't a game anymore its more like a job.

    So are you accusing pay to win as a GAME, or as a JOB ?

    I guess the devs will have a headache or two about keeping the two separate so some of us true roleplayers can have at least a bit of immersion.
     
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  11. Keyman

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    This is the FEEDBACK forum, there is nothing that says that declarative statements need to be backed up... I'll declare all I want without providing a single piece of proof if I desire to do so. As for where did I get the "trolling" from, I suggest you go back a few comments and find it. I was told specifically that using the word "exorbitant" is trolling.
     
  12. amaasing

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    @HoustonDragon - Here is where the acquisition of trolling was made:
    And I don't know where that thread went - I know it was there because I read it. So maybe it was removed. And thus the question of "Is a discussion of the impact of econonmic issues in the game bad?"

    I really wish our community were more tolerate of the opinions of others. It's not the Lot Taxes or the players in game who bought more 'stuff' than others or how PVP works or doesn't work or how the combat system is designed or any other aspect of the game that will ultimately make or break the success of the game. But the Community and how they conduct themselves in the forums will have a huge impact on the outcome of the game. And the more toxic and augmentative that we continue to be in these forums, the fewer good people will want to be a part of this game and community.

    Maybe we should all read the Community Rules every day as a reminder of how we should conduct ourselves on the forums.

    Act with Virtue:
    Treat others as you would want to be treated. We are all people united under the same banner, with similar hopes and many different opinions. Show respect for one another, disagree with grace, and offer opinions with humility. And sheath those swords… there are absolutely no personal attacks allowed.

    Speak with Virtue:
    We are a community with many voices, but remember to watch thy tongue when it comes to profanity, racism, religion, slander, threats, or derogatory attacks on other people and/or their ideas. Speak responsibly and post responsibly or ye will find thyself banned*.

    Be not a Troll:
    Do not purposefully patronize others or make posts designed to instigate an argument. Our goal is to create a great community for a great game, not to pummel each other with virtual sticks and stones.

    Badger Not thy Kingdom:
    Harassment or bullying of any type is not welcome in this community. We are here to encourage a collaborative spirit, not to shut it down by repeatedly invalidating others opinions or feedback. Consistently strong-arming others into the same discussion, or repeatedly posting the same ideas/opinions in multiple threads/forums also falls under this category and should be avoided.
     
  13. Ultima Codex

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    I question exactly how this is "trolling"; that's not an accusation that should be slung around casually. But before I consider moderating the post, @Elwyn, please do explain what your exact reasoning here is.

    For reference, the definition of "exorbitant" is "(of a price or amount charged) unreasonably high." It's a subjective term, and will mean different things to different people. I'll give an example to help illustrate: about two and a half years ago, working at my previous job, I'd have regarded $275 (the minimum spend to get a tax-free house lot) as being rather exorbitant; that would have seemed an unreasonably steep price to charge for a small player home. That is because I was earning a fair bit less, and so had far less disposable income to spend on e.g. supporting crowdfunded projects.

    Nowadays, at my current job, that's not the case; I could probably drop $275 and not think much of it. But: not everyone makes six figures (median income in the US is $51,939/year), so what's easy for me to spend isn't necessarily going to be an easy prospect for others, and may in fact seem unreasonably costly -- exorbitant, in other words.

    Is it trolling to say as much? Like I say: I question that premise. So please, do explain your reasoning here.
     
  14. Mekong

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    You're just on a moderating roll today aren't you. I basically stated the same as this but in a much more constructive way but I'm the one who got moderated :D
     
  15. Womby

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    @Ultima Codex

    I probably should stay out of this, but being sensible has never been one of my guiding principles.

    The first sentence of the original post was:
    "Since I raised the issue of this games exorbitant fees within the game, such as housing, crafting, resurrecting, etc., negatively impacting people who aren't able to afford such fees within and outside of the game, I got some people upset." (my emphasis)

    The claim that the game's fees are exorbitant is stated as fact rather than opinion. This is a clear attempt to shut down opposing views, and has no place in an original post. The aim of such a post should be to encourage feedback and discussion. Instead, in this case the forums have been used as a billboard to state a contentious opinion in a manner that attempts to negate contrary opinions, and is therefore bound to provoke a reaction.

    If the sentence was posted in full knowledge that it would provoke such a reaction then yes, I personally would regard that as trolling. On the other hand if the original poster was unaware that such a reaction would result then I would not. Without examining his previous posts we cannot know what was in the mind of the poster. Some, however, may be aware of OP's previous posts, and that information could have been instrumental in deciding whether or not the thread started with a troll post.
     
  16. rune_74

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    I think a lot of the priced are way to high and that a lot of the pledge rewards give huge amounts of powers to players. It isn't a level playing field and it never will be.
     
  17. StrangerDiamond

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    Unless, SIEGE PERILOUS ! XD
     
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  18. Spoon

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    Here is the thing. This community is very tolerant of deviant opinions. Much more so than the majority of gaming forums out there.

    However there are two things at play here :
    1)
    The community does not control moderation. Instead that is up to the forum owner, their rules and the enforcement thereof.
    Being a moderator is much like handing out traffic tickets. You didn't make the rules. Yet when you are doing a good job which is the enforcement of the rules people get in your face about said rules. I think the moderators regardless should get much more recognition than they do.
    So if someone is complaining about being censored that has nothing to do with the community but rather with the policies of the site owner.
    Since the poster here definitely broke at least three of the rules you cited in the last topic I find it very weird to cite them in his defense.
    If one has a problem with the rules or their enforcement then there is a clear protocol to follow.
    Venting about them in the next post isn't going to help anything.
    Now if you are a moderator then one of your tasks is to go through the Reported list. Then solely judge that post vs rules. Nothing more nothing less.
    This specific forum doesn't allow too much conflict. Regardless of who advocates what.
    2)
    Being allowed to have an opinion works all ways.
    For a feedback forum to work properly then I should be able to express my opinions then BDF should be able to express his dismissal of that opinion and so forth.
    If I state that "feature x should be removed" then I dearly hope that everyone in favor of feature x should voice their counter opinion.
    That is not censorship nor a hostile community.
    3)
    Which ties into "how we express our opinions will determine the response to that opinion".
    If in 2 above if I said
    "Everyone who wants fast travel are lazy and should look for a different game"
    Then I should expect trouble and be ready to argue for that view. If I instead say.
    "We need to be very restrictive of fast travel since we are trying for regional economies, control points and exploration to be a thing. "
    Then it would be a snark fest. Even people who disagree strongly wouldn't care.

    So if we look at the OP here if it had stated.
    "Given the fees on banking, vendors and taxes on lots the majority players with base accounts are at a too high disadvantage, seriously jeapordizing he success of the game. "
    Then there would be no accusations of trolling. We'd still be arguing the details but it would be much less hostile.

    Let me demonstrate that by doing such a topic. I will wait till tonight or tomorrow so people have a chance to forget.
     
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  19. rune_74

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    I have to ask after seeing a thread I posted yesterday get attacked by numerous members do you really believe this?
     
  20. Cinder Sear

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    I believe it.
     
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