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Kill Stealing rewarded/encouraged?

Discussion in 'Release 27 Feedback Forum' started by Smalls, Mar 16, 2016.

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  1. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    Until there is a person who attack a bunch of mobs and pull them all to a group of players on different room. Those guys will be killing mobs without getting anything while the griefer gets all. This approach will be worse than last hit for this case.
     
  2. Lord Dreamo

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    Many MMORPGs have fixed these issues with automatic shared exp and loot even when not grouped. It really does make for a more enjoyable sociable experience. I like seeing people fighting a pack of skeletons and jumping in on the fray knowing they won't get mad if I steal their kill.
     
  3. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    FTFY.
     
  4. Duke Lorimus

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    Make it a criminal act to take the last hit.. if it was to save someone they would be greatfull to you and not care your currently freely attackable to them ..... if they do attack you atleasts you have the upper hand health wise..
     
  5. Black Tortoise

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    Also agree that %dmg should result in %exp shared, and when not grouped, the person who attacked first gets the loot.

    The current system is easily exploited for grief use (not that Ive witnessed that, but as the population grows...).

    Wow did not no that, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  6. Tiina Onir

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    Personally, I like the idea of handing out the exp for each point of damage dealt. That way the kill-stealer isn't getting the majority of the xp, but you can still step in and help someone who is hurting. It also prevents me from "powerleveling" someone by dealing most of the damage and letting them finish it off.

    I don't know about loot though. I don't like the "different loot piles for everyone involved," and even like the way it is now, but also acknowledge that there it much opportunity for griefing. I wish I had a better answer.
     
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  7. Bluefire

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    Hopefully they will move to a system that supports civil play. Last hit gets all will result in a very empty game.
     
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  8. agra

    agra Avatar

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    The problem is, without personal loot, it's a deterrent to group, because all other things being equal, you will get less loot than solo'ing. With personal loot, everyone gets something, so there's no downside to grouping, from a loot perspective.
    Many games have done well for years with personal loot. It's not a new or terrible thing.
     
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  9. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    I will do what I feel is naturally the right thing to do: help combatants.

    If it's socially not accepted to help others because of some meta game mechanic, blame the game.
     
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  10. Tiina Onir

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    What I don't like about it is that it turns a party into a loot multiplier. The loot may be the same for YOU but, if you're in a party of 5 (which seems pretty typical for most parties I'm in, well, 6-8... but math is easier with 5), that resource is now putting 5x as much loot into the game. That means we need 5x the sinks to flush it out of the economy. Furthermore, you can now off 5x as many in the same timeframe because it's 5x easier to kill them, so in the end we need 25x the sinks to control inflation. You're already getting a benefit from increasing your kills-per-hour and being able to take larger mobs, to the point that I vary rarely fight alone. Without personal loot, you end up with about the same rate of loot (assuming your party members aren't jerks), because you're killing things faster.

    Gold divides up automatically in a party, maybe some way to do the same with the sword/shield/etc.-type loot and make it divide between everyone who participated rather then just the party?

    EDIT: Like I said, I'm not confident this is the right answer to loot, or even if there is one, but I am confidant on awarding XP per damage dealt.

    EDIT 2: Story time:
    Just last night, me and 5 of my closest guildmates decided to hold Varitas pass. I don't think there was a reason for this control-point, just it shouldn't affect anyone else (I hate it when someone decides to hold Eastreach Gap, because I use that all the time, but this control-point seems less frequented).

    I use the term "hold" loosely, as, even being 6 strong (and while I won't claim we're all that and a bag of chips, we aren't bad either), there was much death to be had... particularly from me, as I don't take being multi-teamed by elite archers, archmages, elite elvish fighters, and obsidian wolfs well. We even lost the point a few times (and got it "stuck" for a while). Like a said I use the phrase loosely. What there was no shortage of was loot. By the time I called it a night (around midnight, I think) most of the party was so loaded people were leaving things they didn't want on the bodies, and of course gold was auto-distributing.

    I can't imagine this with each of us getting a full loot from every enemy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  11. Barugon

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    Then I guess I won't be doing that either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  12. Gix

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    Or you can reduce the drop rate by x5 to simulate that people evenly distribute the loot among themselves.
     
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  13. Tiina Onir

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    That's fair, but I don't think that was being suggested (it's distinctly possible I'm wrong though).
     
  14. Leostorm

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    Most adopt the "whoever did the most dmg to the monster" gets the xp and can loot, that means parties as well.

    the xp and loot distribution is just fine, just need to make it so whoever got the kill/xp are the only ones that can loot the body.
    no need to alter the drop %.
     
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  15. StrangerDiamond

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    I like realism in rpgs so instead of talking about full loot (with delays and varying degrees of difficulty) ima just shut up :p
     
  16. Cirsee

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    I agree loot rules need some work. I think in group it is pretty much whoever gets to the corpse first. Spread the corpse loot among the group, put in random loot or need before greed loot rules and master looter for raids, etc. I assume this is something they are going to have in the future, but just in case we assume and are wrong.

    I don't think xp should just be damage based as that leaves out your crowd control and healers from getting much exp. It should be more of an action based effect for group exp delivery and exp should increase in a group to encourage more parties.

    As to helping out someone you run into.. I think I go 50/50 on that. On one hand, should you really expect a reward to help someone out in one moment of trouble? Sounds rather unvirtuous to me to expect a reward in a helping non grouping situation. Then on the other hand I can see the benefit to rewarding that action, but it could also cause others to come in and "help" when help isn't needed. So I would be inclined to say if you touch the mob at least twice it is yours; be that group or solo. Healing should also be allowed outside of groups; that is the easiest way to help someone out that needs it.
     
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  17. Tiina Onir

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    It's definitely a hard question, and I don't envy the person who has to make it in the end.

    Hrm, that's a fair point, I hadn't considered support-roles. Making it per-action (including non-aggressive ones) would address my concerns, and still give exp to the support-players.

    My concern about helping someone is more along the line of "I see you dying, so step in to help, and kill it to save you. I SHOULD NOT get all the exp just because I happened to hit last (as I think it is now)." Also, I feel exp isn't supposed to be a "reward" per se, but a representation of you learning your skills better, looking at it from that perspective is where splitting it up comes in. Both people should have learned something from the situation, ergo both get experience.

    Totally agree with you on healing!
     
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  18. Jefe

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    Ironic in a game that is supposed to reward morality that obvious opportunities to be helpful are not enabled.
     
  19. SmokerKGB

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    So, why did you do that? What made you think this guy needed help? He had the mob down to 20%, you said so... So, did he ask you to help? Maybe he was fine doing it himself, and didn't need or want your help... You could have just /sit and watch as a spectator... Even if the guy died, you could have just ran circles around the mob with your fists, and kept it occupied until he returned to land the final blow... Now that would have been helpful... You then would have time to party, and you could heal the guy if need be, you said you knew him...

    I like the rest of your idea, and ya, loot sharing has always been a problem... In WoW, everyone is offered to "roll" for each item and lower level players are given a lift up in the odds, but that's WoW...
     
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  20. Julian Baskerville

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    Hellohoo? You guys really discussing this?

    This is an online roleplaying game that people play to relax, helping others is something positive and nobody should have to justify for hitting a mob that another is fighting.

    Human interaction is wanted...stupidly autoattacking a mob until its down to 0% and starting a discussión "I'm gone report you..you hit my mob...bwahahaa" is so out of the question. Even more so in a game that offers you to play alone if you feel like.

    This might surpise you, but when you start an MMO, you WILL encounter other players...behaving like they are not there or not wanting someone to hit your mob is fine, there are hundreds of game out there that are made for you.

    Over here...you use your keyboard and make friends with them - well, if you understood the basics of MMOs that is. Else...you complain...and feel bad...what is absolutly deserved.


    Only non social people need mechanics to settle stuff for them, cause they cant handle someone interferring with their ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
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