Kill Stealing rewarded/encouraged?

Dude, you got me. I want the system like WoW as a basis for mob tagging, not because it is a functioning system that makes sense and removes kill stealing problems and has been play tested to death, but just because the fact that WoW did it. If you want to get rid of artificial barriers, turn the pvp flag to on when you attack someone's mob. See how long people run around like fools then.

 

It doesn't make sense. It's a boring and unimaginative semi-solution, which is about as gamey and unnatural of a mechanic as I can think of.

 

Let me ask this: Why are you interested in protecting people's right to steal kills? Only jerks come in and start beating on other people's mobs without permission. I just don't understand the need to share experience or gold with people who do that. It's a form of griefing and nothing else. Am I missing a point here?

 

Why do you even CARE? I've proposed a system where you get the vast majority of what you would have anyway, and any "loss" is offset by being able to move to the next target faster. Does that last 10th of a percent really matter that much to you (even though you would have taken that much longer)? Does it bother you so much that you want to toss up needless barriers, which serve no real function but to remind you that this is just a character in a game rather then someone who has a life in this world? Has it been so drilled into your head that "dem ebil killz-stealahz be sealin' meh killz" that even if it wouldn't affect your progress in any serious way you're STILL going to get up in arms about it?

If interacting with the general public is THAT much of a bother to you, so much that you're going to declare that something that doesn't affect your character's development is "griefing," maybe you should reconsider if you really want to be playing with the general public at all. One of the best reasons it NOT be so heavy-handed with rules, is that we have the option of limiting ourselves to just friends, or even going alone.

99% of the time, I'm probably going to be one of the people getting kills "stolen" from me. As long as I get a proportional amount of the experience and some of the loot, I don't care. Artificial limitations on being able to step in and help someone who's in over their head (or someone doing the same for me, as I'm want to get over my head) are far more of a concern.

 

What is the point of making a system that splits experience when all the "loss" is just a 10th of a percent? Splitting the gold when all the gold shared will only be a 10th of a percent? The answer is.... the percentages won't always be just a 1oth of a percent. That brings up the idea that poor little Tommy wants to level but a group of people follow him around killing anything he tags making his percentage of exp and gold very low. Nearly impossible without going into another play mode. I can't think of any better way to remind myself that this is just a character in a game than by logging out of multiplayer and logging back in to SPO. Anyway... I'm about a 10th of a percent sure that the system purposed will be in this game. "wouldn't affect your progress " -give people the tools and find out what happens.

 

Oh, you are such a nice person, Ludwig, I wish everyone were so nice! Unfortunately, there are real nasty people out there, I met two in one day once, who are professional "kill-stealers" and they are not in the least interested in communication or making friends. I haven't come across any in recent releases, but after the final wipe I expect there will be a lot of them. The only protection will be single player mode.

 

I strongly believe in the good in people until I am proven wrong...SotA is to early for me to complaint about other others, everyone I met so far is a charme.

The one single time someone "stole" a mob from me, we continued adventures together and are kinda great friends now.

 

WoW's system of tagging mobs is the dumbest thing ever invented.

It goes this way: you tag all the mobs in an area, with just long range abilities, then forget about them and let other people do the hard work for you.

It move the "kill stealing" from the last hit to the first, but it encourages them all the same. It's a non-solution to the problem.

 

Regardless. At least on non-party interactions I would like to:

Be able to assist a random person in combat (don't care about reward).
Heal a random person via point or burst heal.
De-Zombie Stank a random person either through point or burst. The fact that this does not work already causes chaos to some when you have the spreading stank plague as you can only de-stank you and your own.

 

Like your suggestion Jefe. I too would like to be able to heal other players out of combat, and be able to step in if i see them taking too much dmg and is near death and help them without worrying about getting in the kill shot , I DO NOT EXPECT ANY REWARDS FOR HELPING or HELPING OTHERS, I do it (1.) to help them and (2) hey FOR me it's fun!!!!. Every game I have played allowed me to do this, because i love helping others when I see them in danger. Can't do this in this game and it boggles the mind. WISH we could hear from the Devs on this.... because to me this is a very important topic.

EDIT... Would like to be able to HEAL those who are not flagged for PVP... SIMPLE, won't effect PVP...

 

How has this gotten so far? I guess no one really paid attention to what I said.
Ill repeat:
Its a very simple % equasion.

Who ever does the most dmg to an enemy gets the xp/loot.
That way you can help someone if they get low or whatever and unless you jumped in at like 90% and are droping bombs then its all good.

"claiming mobs" is horrible function and should fade away from all games.

One of the obstacles is the PvP mode/flag. What if someone is PvP and the healer isn't? So they could heal bomb and help a PvPer without ever having to worry about being attacked.
One solution was to turn on PvP if you healed/buffed someone that was PvP, works that ways in parties I think.
Not sure why its not that way out of parties. Im presuming there are some loopholes in the aggro/flagging systems.

Maybe they are worried about aggro stealers or something. Say ur fighting something, and some random healer comes and heal bombs you so much they pull the aggro away from you then take off with the mob.
This is also a reason not to have claimed mobs, if that healer did pull aggro and the mob was claimed, thered be no way to defend or defeat the mob. The person that was fighting and had claim, can then just watch as you are helpless to getting murdered, if so inclined.

Maybe I am jaded from playing a lot of Asian MMOs but my stance stays on that this is a major loophole exploit that needs to be addressed in some way.

 

What happens when people who intentionally grief come in groups to kill every single thing you are trying to kill, reducing your your exp and gold gain to near nothing?

 

This is something I would like to see in the system. No expectation of rewards when offering HELP.

 

Alternatively, make it impossible for PVE players to heal PVP players. Problem solved. No automatic flagging, no "blue healer" problems. If you want the ability to heal PVP players, then you should flag yourself PVP.

 

that would be fine with me in open instances but, if i'm running chillblain's with a mixed party, we should all be able to heal each other.

 

Supposed to work that way out of party as well. My understanding is if you are not flagged PvP and attack someone who is, you are immediately toggled to PvP. I would assume that there is a similar function for healing.

 

Solution: place an Oracle in Braemar, so people can lose their PVP flags. They serve no purpose in the challenge dungeon.

 

that's not the only party-only scene.

 

honestly, i'd like to see it kind of randomized.. sometimes you get a bonus reward for assisting, sometimes you don't..but a modicum of xp (for your skills used) should always be expected.

 

Well there are a lot of MMO's who've solved the Participation problem with certain mobs... "Reduced XP for High Levels attacking lower level mobs, Group Participation (Every Spell/Ability is accounted for, Heal/Buff/Debuff/Damage %, Group Bonus XP, Time Out for Participation (say a guy starts a fight with a huge boss, runs out of Aggro range then my group shows up kills the big boss, but no one can loot it because guy number 1 tagged it first) Had issues with this in EQ when they started implementation of some of these things, I've got to say GW2 did the whole participation thing right. Personalized loot is always nice. Just Rare stuff should be that...rare. You want a lot of people to play together then encourage participation, helping. Discourage First or Last Hit, make sure everyone gets something if they participated. I'm not saying a Last hit bonus would be a bad thing give it a higher % to drop the Rare Item. And first hit higher XP share....But if you want a big group of people playing amicably with each other then selfish/greedy/backstabbing type game mechanics have to go... The "group gets to vote on rewards", have a Need before Greed system "Optional for those of us who have friends want big guilds. It'd even be nice to have a Participation % see who's helped out the most for a certain time frame. Depending on game-play and how big "Raids if there will be any may get."

But I digress...
All XP/Loot goes to last Hit, needs to be fixed. Very few people will accept this as the "way it is". I guarantee I'll only play "friends mode if this stays."
Personal Loot system based on the Value of the Mob(s) killed split between the players with a small % to get something rare. Should fix the balance of Value issue based on what is being killed messing with the economy. Say on average after killing x amount of mobs a rare piece would drop then if they had a random # that was based on kills subtracting the value added (based on selling what dropped, acquiring value) to a set number where the item would show up with random number generating it. Something like this system would keep the currency value up without worrying about value of it going down due to all these people getting 5x the kills and 5x the loot (if 5 = group limit)
Groups should get an XP bonus for playing as a full group (when splitting the xp) While it's said that you can kill 5 x more with a group it's not actually true because different people have different "time IRL to spend on games" so while it's conceivable for a few people to spend 1 hour doing something together it's much harder for everyone to spend more then that, and as WOW has shown the world 15, 30, 60 min things are better then 2hour, 4 hour or heaven forbid 7+ hour raids (Yeah looking at you EverQuest: Luclin- Vex Thaul, Planes of Power - Ragrax, Stronghold of the Twelve)
Also Squad (2-3) Person, Group 5-6 Person, and Raid 12, 24,32 Person are easier to setup then 48+ (EQ again).
Instanced Mobs or Shared XP/Loot type systems are needed if you want more people to play it's just the nature of these games.

TL,DR: Fix the All loot XP to last hit it's great for gaming a system but just sloppy for an MMO type game made after 2005. Setup Several Layers of Social Gaming sizes (2-32) whatever your biggest (Event) may be. Depending on whatever type of game-play you want to inspire you'll need mechanics in place to encourage and discourage. Of course several players will meta-game the system but don't balance the game based on the few meta-players or you'll ostracize the majority.

 

You're missing the point, after you consider how much faster you can move to the next mob, exp/min difference is minute. You're concerned about the change in that mob for some bizarre reason, rather then the amount of time it takes you to gain the exp. I'm more then willing to sacrifice a small amount of XP and loot, for a wider range of interaction. If I didn't want that interaction, I would play in one of the other modes and keep all the XP and loot for myself. I have the option now of playing either way, but you want to take that away.

The difference is changing modes only affects YOU; what you're proposing affects EVERYONE. You don't like interacting with people, so no one should be able to. Gee, thanks.

Where do you get this weird idea that experience is some kind of reward? It's not, it's a mechanic to represent how experienced you are. If someone goes into the shop and builds a chair, is being more proficient with their tools a "reward?" Of course not, the reward is having a place to put their butt.