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Let's talk about combat!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Nov 27, 2013.

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  1. Freeman

    Freeman Avatar

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    @lordpriapus - they have said they've budgeted time incase it all goes sideways in Alpha and people just don't like it.

    @smack - its only skill in deck building if you build your own deck. Most will just pick a deck build off the internet, rendering that moot, and while there will be some interesting things that come from not knowing what you'll be able to do from moment to moment... luck will play a much bigger role than it does in other games, and depending on how it shakes out, has the possibility to play far too much of a role to be fun.
     
  2. smack

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    You're right, there will be those that will try and use "the best deck" whatever that is, but that's true of most games. But after that point, what you do with them isn't guaranteed and depends solely on skill. Even the n00bs who Google it will have to learn how, when and what to do with their skills when dealt to them to really make use of those "best builds". So I agree there will be an element of luck, but beyond the builds themselves, it will rely mostly on skill. And yes, lots of play testing and tweaking to ensure luck isn't the only or major factor in determining outcome. That part they have to get right.
     
  3. Freeman

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    @smack - I'm going to try not to go arround and arround about this again here. But no one is saying 'zero' luck, just that it will weigh heavier in the balance of things than players are interested in... No, not everyone, but enough that it's a huge 'yech' to a lot of RPG players, both new and old school.
     
  4. vjek

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    Great post, Ashlynn, and I like your idea (highlighted in green) as a compromise/middle ground solution to random-hotkey-locations. I agree with the rest of your logical conclusions, but it would be nice to get an official response to your constructive compromise idea.
     
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  5. Lord Baldrith

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    Sure people who care to learn how to best maximize their desired output will research it online to find it...that's okay...just as it's okay to build your own deck with your own ideas of the best build without the help of others. It all comes down to what is funnest for each person.

    I prefer to experiment myself rather than run to online help...That's funnest for me...

    I do agree that the system does seem different...but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. Generally, new things are not easily accepted until 'proven' worthy. This whole system is 'unproven' because we haven't tried it yet. I have confidence that the design crew is quite experienced in combat systems and wouldn't be messing around with this system if they didn't feel it was good.
     
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  6. Oakwind

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    Here is some fighting History for you. :)


     
  7. Caladhan

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    I'm a bit worried because I'm nearly colourblind. I'm hoping there won't be a lot of colour coded things!
     
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  8. Devoid

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    This combat system just....
    ...BLOWS MY MIND!!!

    [​IMG]
    Like, it BLOWS MY MIND!

    [​IMG]

    IT LITERALLY BLOWS MY MIND!!!

    [​IMG]
    Just as long as PvP works, otherwise it's back to the drawing board!
     
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  9. addrox

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    Question... not sure if anyone had posted this... but pretty much EVERY game out there is a TAB to target game. Tab to target gaming has been going on Since UO till today.

    How about a system that requires the player to AIM? I find too much in Tab to target games players create macros that give themselves a +1 over their enemies in combat. Not that it matters but if this current system goes South how about it?

    Now that could be some interesting PvP
     
  10. aevans

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    I was going to recommend some options to deal with notification of changing skill slots, so I'll just brainstorm them here and now.

    (Aside: I have a theory that the TV show Firefly used Purple and Green lights instead of the more classic Red and Green lights. The Purple has some Blue in it, so Red/Green color-blind people could still distinguish between the two. I have not further researched this.)

    1) As much as I don't like the Mac OS dock's icon resizing when you mouse over them, a change in size could help bring attention to changes in skill slots. A shrink-the-slot animation when it goes away, and grow-bigger animation as it becomes available. In fact it would grow larger than the normal slot size, then return to normal when the skill is available for use.

    2) Another option from the Mac OS dock is a bouncing effect for notification. Bounce the skill slot once a new skill is available for use.

    Both of these bring attention to the skill slots (at a cost of immersion and distraction from the game).

    3) Color schemes are always going to be difficult - image the number of skill types available in Episode 5 and how you would choose to color each of them, keeping in mind the various forms of colorblindness (it's not just red/green as far as I am aware). Do your best to pick colors, but don't let it be the only distinction.

    4) In addition to colors, the use of icons may help. I suspect it's a given to have an icon in the skill slot, but they may be too small to recognize at a glance, or to similar to distinguish specific skills.

    5) In addition to colors and icons, alter the border of the skill slot. Sharp spikey edges for certain attack skills (perhaps more powerful skills have sharper or larger spikes). Smooth waving lines for healing type skills, rounded corners for defensive skills, small boring squares for slugs and the like. I'm not going to try and come up with an exhaustive list.

    Again these bring attention to the skill slots and not the on-screen combat, but offer more ways to distinguish skills at a glance.

    6) Sound effects - a 'pop' sound when a skill leaves the skill slot, a 'ping' sound when a new skill is ready, some special sound when a combo is initiated, etc. Options to enable/disable and control volume. These sounds can eiither a) fit in with the sounds of combat, or b) stay separate so you know a little about what is going on on the skill slots.

    7) The (optional) 'voice inside your head'. I have no idea where it comes from and there could be many to choose from. If you have a pet, they could be the source of the voice. Tame a non-combat fairy or butterfly or something and they can (somehow) whisper in your ear. Configure it for a 'good' sounding voice or a 'evil' sounding voice (of unknown origins). Here's where we lose immersion - after the sound effects mentioned above the voice says something like '1', '2', '3', etc to correspond with the slot that changed. Other non-voice sounds can be used if someone can come up with a way to represent the slots. I seriously doubt this falls in line with the lore and myth of the game world, but I am brainstorming,

    8) 3D sound effects - for people with really good hearing and the correct setup, have the above sound effects come from the far left to present the left most skill slot, and (get this) the far right to represnt the right most skill slot.

    Probably some loss of immersion, but less reliance on having to look away from combat to see what is going on. All of the above should be configureable as makes sense for the effect. And that means turning them off for anyone how doesn't like or want them.

    9) Probably my preferred option: above each combat slot have another image with a transparent background. The image would be related to the action - sword or shield or potion or item or spell effects, etc. These could be 3D models of actual items equipped. They sit above the skill slots, are only shown when available for use, could fade in and out with the skill itself. Oh gosh, you could even animate them,

    Brainstorm over - time to read more threads.
     
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  11. CalBolc

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    This must have been discussed prior to now. Can someone point me in the direction of discussions of how the healing/health system may fit into this please? Or even what the healing/health system may be? (Apologies for my ignorance).

    My personal experiences of MMO combat have (like most) left me wanting from most games since UO. One of the very unqiue features I believe was the healing system in UO. The system worked because it was so reliant on the timings from both the attacker and the defender (healer) to cast spells, apply bandages, interupt, poison (which meant a cure was necessary before heal could work). It provided the core dynamics for both solo combat and very importantly group combat.
     
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  12. aevans

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    What are the developer's current expectations on the timing of skill use during combat?

    Will it be fast-paced such that you (almost) always have a skill ready to use, possibly multiple skills?

    Or is it a bit more relaxed where you have a little bit of time to wait for a new skill to pop up or time to check on your available skills and decide which is best (or discard some, or try to trigger a combo)?

    I'm just going to assume the goal is to strike a balance between player attack rate against mobs, as well as player versus player attack rates (wherein the Focus Skill - Brainstorm may be beneficial for a slight edge in attack rate).
     
  13. PrimeRib

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    Modern games do aim. Tera, Neverwinter, etc. You have to abandon true 3rd person for over the shoulder / first person and use the mouse for aim / target / camera all in one. I would be disappointed if they didn't do this.
     
  14. G Din

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    At this point, as long as when I go to pick up a pint of ale off the bar it doesn't randomly change to a glass of water, I could care less.
     
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  15. Mishri

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    I would assume rounding down will always take place, getting half our skills locked doesn't seem right.
     
  16. vjek

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    Given the mouse-heavy implementation described so far, using it for movement, camera, removing, casting, combos, AND aiming?
    No thank you. At this point, I'll take tab targeting and dance with joy.
     
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  17. Mishri

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    I actually really dislike that system, atleast how i played it in neverwinter. didn't try tera
     
  18. Mishri

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    combos + casting has keyboard alternatives. options are great. but I agree, aiming system is unnecessary given the style of ths system.it would be too much.
     
  19. Joviex

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    I played it. It was not random.

    The Skilldeck had 6 rows (called tiers) with 5 skill-slots per row. Each skill-slot could be filled with a chosen skill, as long as the skill was learned and is available in the character’s Skillbook.

    The barrel would roll between rows to setup combos.

    The players were completely free to experiment and create their own fighting styles and tactics and teams could work together to coordinate the composition of their Skilldecks to increase their battle performance.

    THAT was an innovative system.

    Those rows in the barrel are pre-selected by the player, not random.

    It also had free targeting and skill combinations, that you could chain.

    This system will be a complete random event if you can combo skills.
     
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  20. PrimeRib

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    Actually they already do all of that. The video showed ground targeted AoE with the mouse. And yes, it's too much. They need to make the skills work without the mouse. That's one of my biggest problems with the system...it involves skill clicking and hitting keys which you cannot really hit while moving.

    They can make the combos somthing that gets built out of combat or they can make they happen automagically. But dragging with the mouse while doing everything else really doesn't work in real time.
     
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