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Levels are killing this game

Discussion in 'Release 23 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Nov 7, 2015.

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  1. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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    I want PVE to be more challenging also, but doing it is hard while balancing PVP. I also have had a PVP flag possibly longer than anybody still playing so it is not like i don't notice PVP issues.
     
  2. Abydos

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    At least, it would be much nice than killing wolves in chain.
    Hello Deep Ravenswood Wolfs, I can kill your pack of 30 members each 15 minutes without calling it ''Too exploitable''
    Not just on Wednesday, 7/7 days, 24/24 hours. Oh YEAH THANKS GOD, I LIKE PVE.
    Your noob @Spoon and people are loved your funy reply ! Too cute :)

    Seriously, I agree with you.

    It would be important to develop ways to avoid the dark side called ''Too exploitable''. It would ruin the game.
    But it's still important to respect and not to turn to ridicule the needs of the players. Yes i love PvP and Yes there are many games where you earn experience by killing players without being forced to do PvE like a beast.

    Anyway, I guess you do not play a lot PvP games, otherwise you knew that it is easy to avoid the situation you describe.

    Peace !
     
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  3. Drocis the Devious

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    Actually I would say that if PVP is balanced you'd have a much better chance of balancing PVE because of the difficultly level. PVE is half AI and half the way the combat system is designed. PVP would balance up both, PVP AI being significantly more difficult than anything on the PVE side.

    As for being flagged PVP, I haven't seen you in game for 6 releases. Of course that probably means you haven't seen me either. But my point is really more about the fact that being flagged for PVP or not flagged for PVP doesn't really matter. I spend almost all of my time in Rats Nest (which is open PVP) or in Shardfalls (also open PVP) and barely saw anyone to PVP with.

    But this is not about you or me, it's about the macro mechanics of PVP, one of which is levels. Levels make it really hard for people to find a fair fight, something Chris blew off in his combat video by saying something like "well pvp is never fair because you're always going to be ganked by groups of people". I'm paraphrasing from memory. But when I heard that I was like "well yeah, it's never going to get fixed either if that's our attitude."
     
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  4. KuBaTRiZeS

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    I'd like to see that when confronting opinions we tend to dismiss each other suggestions because we feel something is "too <insert negative quality here>". Everything can be changed and adapted, maybe it should be better to think if there's a way to prevent that from being "too <insert negative quality here>"? Of course everybody is entitled to feel like a possible solution is not feasible for many acceptable reasons... but sometimes those reasons are just created by the way we're perceiving each other suggestions.

    I'm saying this because i just catched up and saw some things i'd say they had potential and dismissed in that fashion... maybe if people suggested something in the fashion of "that could suffer from being too <insert negative quality here>, but we could fix it or less the impact this way or that way". If we can identify a problem maybe we should be able to outline a solution.
     
  5. redfish

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    You could also probably make the case the other way around; that if PvE is made to feel challenging and fun rather than grindy, with things like counters, tactical maneuvers, or whatever, then that probably helps design PvP better. Some people will always find PvP fun because they're good with twitch skills and they can match the twitch skills of their opponent. But getting it beyond twitch is where designing for PvE helps.
     
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  6. Leelu

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    In my opinion, for this to work, it would have to be a new experience for all the players. The days when pvper's are the bad guys, should be done and over with. Ganking over and over is tedious, and not challenging for the ganker and
    not gankee, lol. To enable a balance , there must a moment when the gankee becomes the ganker. To give the victim a chance at retribution, would be so much more entertaining. After all a pvper, should not be adverse from being ganked back . This could become a random moment , or even a none event, at least if implemented it would give the semblance of fair play. Of course this is just my ever so humble opinion.:D
     
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  7. E n v y

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    I read through this thread and find it really depressing. Personally I find the direction suggested just a head in hands moment.

    I'm actually half tempted to link thread to all the PvPers I know (who don't currently play the game) and just post their responses. Only problem is, those responses won't be good and would have to be moderated. Sadly when PvPers from outside the game see these kind of threads, is it any wonder they are not enthusiastic of making a transition.
     
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  8. Satan Himself

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    I may be drawn and quartered for saying this, but I actually preferred the skills system we had in place before, I forget, R22 or whenever they changed everything up, now that I've tested the new system for a while.
     
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  9. redfish

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    I'm going to hunt you down in the game and gank you. (But you need to consent to it first.)
     
  10. Drocis the Devious

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    You don't speak for everyone that likes PVP, Envy. It's fine to express your own opinion. We disagree, that's fine too. But it's not ok for you to constantly take the stand that you and only you in this community (or at least never me) are allowed to talk about PVP and what it should and shouldn't be.

    Should I find people that like my ideas about PVP and have them come on here and tell you you're wrong? How about we just disagree, you and I, and leave the phantom "real pvpers" out of this conversation?
     
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  11. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    .......I have already shared the link on a PvP facebook forum that is attached to a PvP guild on UO. I have asked them to give me feedback............if they respond great and I will pass the feedback here (both positive and negative)..........if they don't respond I would say it speaks for itself.

    Surprisingly enough Drocis, I don't really care if you talk about PvP or not........If I see a good idea I will say it's a good idea, if I see a bad idea I will say it is bad. I don't agree with what you say in this thread and for the same reasons you continue to push your ideas......I will continue to say that it is a poor idea. Just because you created a thread doesn't give you the right to suggest who can and who can't post in it.......you not in Rats Nest now.
     
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  12. Drocis the Devious

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    People that like PVP are on facebook, really? :)

    Good, say it's a poor idea. Tell us why. But stop talking for other people and just talk for yourself. That's what people do when they have a point to make.

    You can post all you want, Envy. What's not cool is that you can't tell me why the idea is bad, other than to point to your authoritative pvp reputation as a self proclaimed "real pvper" to which according to you invalidates my ideas because (again according to you) I'm not a real pvper.

    That's what you're doing wrong, you're projecting a false narrative that frankly wouldn't carry any weight even if it was true.

    The whole reason I'm having this conversation is so people have a chance to PVP in Rats Nest. The way the game works now it's just going to be me wondering if anyone will come out of their single player online (grinding) hole long enough to see their shadow.
     
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  13. Traveller13

    Traveller13 Bug Hunter

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. E n v y

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    So I skipped the drivel and got to this.......

    If you feel that Rats Nest is currently failing, maybe you have to consider the following:
    - The game is in Alpha, many many people don't like incomplete games unless they are really popular (DayZ, Ark etc). Don't expect the population before release.
    - Maybe people don't like the concept of Rats Nest..... some might think it could end up being too laggy ...... some might not like PvPing in a maze.
    - Maybe people don't like the fact you are trying to tell them how they should play their game if they are in your PoT and at the same time complain that players arnt attracted to your PoT.
    - Maybe people arnt keen on your PvP direction......if they don't like your direction then its doubtful they will like your PoT
    - Maybe people don't like the fact you have imposed rules in your PoT

    I don't know why you don't have people desperate to live in your PoT right now......I suspect it's a weighted combination of all of the above. What I can guarantee though......it has nothing to do with levels.
     
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  15. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm not least bit worried about what's happening in pre-alpha. I'm worried about what will happen at launch.

    I have no doubt that Rats Nest will fill up to capacity at launch. I believe all 700+ houses in Rats Nest will be as full as they can be (there are parts of housing that that devs have not explained in full yet, and one of them is how quickly POTs will have available lots for sale).

    No, Envy this is not about me being worried that Rats Nest will fail. It's about me being worried that PVP in the game will fail on a global level - which will directly impact the type of experience I'm trying to provide in Rats Nest.
     
  16. StrangerDiamond

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    I never thought I would say this but... just because you guys look so... uh... antagonizing I think I would surprise myself by sayin I actually agree with you Baron.

    Its really not the first time you bring it up, and I admit it made me cringe at first... but since there is nothing coming from my end of things (Siege perilous) I would rather be on a handicap if I'm confronted to others in a setting such as RN and I'm high level, if a player manages to sneak me in an ambush, well he deserved it and my higher level should have MOSTLY nothing to do with my survival. If I'm a clunky knight, then rogues should have a bonus against me.

    Understand I would need proper counters available since I'm definately expecting said ambush because I'm in RN, so anyone who DARES to ambush me better be ready.
     
  17. jschoice

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    That was a lot of reading but I made it through all 7 pages. This appears to be another one of those thread about what is killing PvP. If your an old school UO player, you have to remember that PvP was fun in that game because of the guilds that participated in it. I know I sound like a broken record on this topic but there were zero PvP mechanics in that game. No castle sieges, no capture the flag, no arenas, no substantial leader boards. It you think about combat, it was so simple compared to games today. Other than magic there were no skills, no skill trees, melee attacks were all auto attacks. Despite the simple nature of UO, we still had a lot of fun PvPing.

    The key ingredient to me that is missing in SotA is there is no organized PvP guilds and no one is starting a rivalry. A lot probably has to do with with that game in pre-alpha, but we use to spend hours fighting at Yew gate, Buc Den, control over a dungeon, popular mining area, or a champ spawn. I go into a lot of the PvP open POTs and I see no action going on. In UO we created our PvP action.

    As far as levels, to me if your in the 40's to 50's in your main skills and you are part of a group in voice coms, you can have a fair fight with higher leveled players if you are more organized and know how to work as a unit. Player level matters more in duels or arena battles.
     
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  18. Themo Lock

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    funny you should mention that.. the rest of the pvp crowd have come to the conclusion that you are the grandmaster of stealth since nobody has ever seen you heh.
     
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  19. StrangerDiamond

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    The game is putting you on different instances, it happened to me alot, even with people on my friendlist, even with people in my party...

    I'm even starting to get paranoid :p
     
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  20. KuBaTRiZeS

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    It's possible to know what direction are you talking about exactly? As far as i can tell there's a couple of different suggestions around in this thread... so maybe knowing which ones you dislike and the reasons could be helpful towards repurposing or dismissing those suggestions.

    At least i'm sure i'll find it helpful :D
     
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