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Discussion in 'Release 16 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Mar 26, 2015.

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  1. Balec Fares deCani

    Balec Fares deCani Avatar

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    double-like
     
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  2. jiirc

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    A) Having a spell, while might add to the lore of travel and seeing where you are, just means that its a skill that most everyone would get.

    B) I'd like this one to be added just because they are something that adds to the world in general. Strategically placed road signs would be a solution. But first you'd have to find them and after running around for a while you'd soon realize that you were running in the wwrong direction.But they should probably be there.

    C) I like this one. I like the system the way it works.

    D) While it doesn't help with being lost, I like the idea as a game mechanic. Roving encounters. :)

    E) This one only helps is I know before hand I'm going to get lost. ;)

    F) Maps, maps, maps. And at least one is coming for the overland scene. I wonder if it should be one big map or smaller ones for each area. If the avatar's location is shown on the map, I suspect that from a tech perspective it would be easier to do smaller maps than one large one.
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

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    I think this is a very good example of the map to overland map limitations. When I look at the map I see two land marks, the Tower and Ardoris. When I look at the overland map, I see the tower, unrelated landmarks, and the vision I'm able to see doesn't show me any other landmark that would be helpful. The mountains on the overland don't exist in the Novia map (not to scale anyway). The road looks like it should be closer to the river and Ardoris. It's just confusing and I'm left with the idea that they don't really match.

    Now if what you're saying is that once we have in-game maps for Novia - like the Perennial Coast map it will be better, then I agree. But I think there's a lack of vision in the overland map that will make travel without an in-game map as big a problem in Novia as it is in Ardoris.

    Again, as big a fan as I am of immerssive travel through large cities and confusing woods, I'm not a big fan of getting lost between huge landmarks. If we want to make it hard to find our way to a specific holdfast in the woods, ok. But should it ever be hard to find Ardoris if you're on the Perennial Coast? I don't think it should. It's by the sea, it's on a main road, it's huge. So that's really my problem. I think all these big landmarks should be visible always relative to where you are on the map.
     
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  4. Drocis the Devious

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    You're right on all parts....

    My position would be that even in the fog of war you'd see "the sea" and "the Tower of the Shuttered Eye" because they're too big to hide. You know where those are... What you don't know is where Stinky's Player Owned Holdfast is.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Ardoris.. south, coast.. not hard to find. :)

    My take is.. not getting lost is about learning your way around. Not just relying on what you consider landmarks. Even that patch of blue flowers could be a landmark for you if you know where they are.

    I'm not suggesting the map couldn't use some improvements.. but since when is a drawn map ever a perfect replica of the in-game terrain?

    I do agree the scale on some things do seem off though.. how about that Grunvald Shardfall?
     
  6. Drocis the Devious

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    Sure, knowing you're supposed to travel on non-nondescript road number 5 instead of non-nondescript road number 1-4 or 6-7 is going to be helpful for you not to get lost. But Novia isn't supposed to be a maze. If I goto Washington D.C. and I find the Capital building, I can look across the horizon and see the Washington Monument. There's no mystery about how I'm going to get there. That's kind of what I'm saying here. If I'm at the tower of the Shuttered eye I kind of feel like I should be able to see Ardoris from there. Maybe the rest of the stuff is covered up by a fog of war, but the major landmarks are there plain as day.

    No, it's not realistic, but neither is being a giant stopping around the overland map. This is about playability, and what I think this simulates is knowing that Ardoris is to the west of the Tower of the Shuttered Eye and then seeing it on the overland map as a landmark that helps guide where you are and where you're not. Because unfortunately the actual geography of the overland map doesn't do that very well.
     
  7. Balec Fares deCani

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Drocis the Devious

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    I would love for the map to work more like that, and less like this ...

    [​IMG]

    What country is that? Which way do you go to get to where you're going? The top picture is far more intuitive to me. You're making a journey on the top picture, you're planning a journey on the bottom picture. See the difference?
     
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  9. Balec Fares deCani

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    That's called the dual-scale map. You can see hundred(s) of miles in the bottom picture and in-game. It helps make it easier that way.

    You question was should it be hard to find Ardoris and the answer is yes. There is a big city nearby in the picture but it looks like that in 360 direction. I think the game has just about the right mix of not handholding and not making it overly difficult. Now if only we could move faster.
     
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  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    You'll have to pick better examples then.. I don't need to see something to know where it is relative to my position. Especially if I probably came from there. I don't need the game to do that for me either. I just need things to be where they're supposed to be when I get there.
     
  11. Drocis the Devious

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    Why in the world would or should it be hard to find Ardoris?

    I think finding the Spectral Mines ENTRANCE should be hard. But not the general location. Finding Ardoris should not be hard at all it's like the biggest city in the game. That's like saying it should be hard to find New York City.

    I don't want hand holding, but I don't want meaningless tedium either. I realize that's based on our own perception and subjectivity (Budner), but I think this is a very good example of where the pain results in "not fun". Especially for large known landmarks like Ardoris. If we're going to have an overland map that has an aerial view then we should just be able to see the major landmarks all over. That makes it easier, seeing for miles in all directions doesn't make it easier if you have nothing to tell you where you are in the first place - it just makes you more lost.
     
  12. Karuson

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    I actually find this system more interesting who cares if I'm bigger then a mountain. Our only problem is. The map is not done. There city's still not in game. The overland world still need a lot of work. Then they can edit the maps to match. When I like at the earlier post pic half map half over world. U can so tell the difference. Heck on the map it's one big fat land. On the over world it looks like cat ears. One ear has a tower the other a town. And the map is missing the towns as well.
     
  13. Drocis the Devious

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    So you dislike the compass showing you where the bank and other points of interest in towns are? That seems to be a very popular feature.
     
  14. Net

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    I disliek it too. Give me map or signposts in town, but this is too much gamey for me *shrugs*.
     
  15. Drocis the Devious

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    I actually like the idea, but I find it to be unhelpful. I can be standing right next to the bank in Kingsport, for example, but the bank marker doesn't really tell me that, it just tells me the general direction so the closer I get to something the less it seems to help.
     
  16. Karuson

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    Hey i made a better road map :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Drocis the Devious

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    Ha!
     
  18. jiirc

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    The compass icons get smaller and larger, and also brighter and dimmer, based on your proximity to the landmark. If you are standing next to the bank, the compass icon is huge. And the sign should help you realize, hey there's the bank. ;)

    The information can't make anyone smarter, it can only communicate ideas.
     
  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    You should know better than to read more into what I say than what I actually said. You will recall the new compass feature requires you to have discovered something first. Which is entirely different than getting lost because you can't see parts of the map or the map doesn't look the way you think it should.

    I've also stated multiple times a measure of agreement that the map still needs work. I just don't think getting lost in it is a major problem and players would be well served by paying attention to what they're doing.
     
  20. Karuson

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    I included the loop of death
    It's the small loop south of Brittany that's where we get lost
     
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