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Macroing

Discussion in 'Release 27 Feedback Forum' started by Poor game design, Feb 26, 2016.

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  1. Lace

    Lace Avatar

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    I cant read half the words on the screen and you expect me to further strain my eyes to prove I am playing. Pshaww I say.
     
  2. StrangerDiamond

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    Pshew indeed... you guys are being way to extreme... thats not how you do it.

    Munchkins be munchkins, its way more complex than that, and you still can't stop RMT which make the issue of skill gain seem dwarfed.
     
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  3. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Okay this thread appears to have run its course...one final remark about the OP proposal because I haven't touched it previously...

    If something like CAPTCHA were ever implemented in this game as a way to combat macroing, the Gods of Supreme Irony would be extremely pleased: it would quickly become the most macroed feature ever, #1 in this game and probably a slew of similar games like it as well. Even players who despise macroing, and/or who have never otherwise macroed anything, would seriously consider macroing it, just to make it go away.
     
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  4. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    This morning's patch will increase the amount of exps applied per skill use on all skills by a factor of 4. I'm sure there will still be some gustballers but hopefully far fewer.
     
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  5. Cinder Sear

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    I'm confused at how these actions will mitigate this? I like the idea of more xp of course.. just can't wrap my head around why giving more xp is gonna prevent me from spending my pool (or a portion of it, I never go too low before refilling) in a controlled environment?
     
  6. Cinder Sear

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    So the mobs give the same xp, but skill xp drain is quadrupled? :rolleyes:
     
  7. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm happy about this, I'm interested to see what impact it has on progression. But I'm also concerned and wanted to provide some feedback to you so you can be on the look out for this.

    I'm at level 43 right now, and I just lost my 4x modifier at 42. At that moment, my total experience pool was about 254k....it's now at like 190k. I'm trying to fight things that are at my level (mobs that are blue right?) but that's not working. Honestly, I have my hands full trying to fight Corpions and Large Skeletons right now. I've found some yellow mobs and killed a few, but those are killing me more than I'm killing them. Anyway, my point is that I'm loosing experience fast! Which it's my understanding that means that I might eventually make so little experience killing the stuff I'm killing that I'll level up very VERY slowly.

    Ok, so three things about this:
    1. I think this shines a light on how over powered group progression is. Here's why: What might take me 30 attacks to kill, might only take a group of 3 10 attacks each. So the whole time you're in a group your experience is going up and up and up! Which is great if you only want groups of people to be able to level up, but there's a single player online mode in this game. ;)

    2. I don't think we're level balanced yet. Yeah, we're still testing so this is to be expected. But when I get into an area that is 4 skulls and I'm only level 43, you'd think I'd get more experience for killing stuff and my EXP pool wouldn't go down.

    3. Lastly, there's a part of this system I don't understand. I'm level 43 and I have 190k pool experience. So collectively, everything I've trained in adds up to 190k pooled experience + whatever I've trained. But it seems like I could very easily get spread too thin in my skills and not be able to fight anything that would give me enough experience to keep my pool up. Nevermind the fact that I might want to reskill at some point and that's effectively looking experience (overall). I guess I'm making an observation that as I get more powerful I had better be super powerful with just a couple of skills if I want to keep my pool filled up. Otherwise it's going to take me forever to get anywhere at higher levels. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think once the final wipe occurs we're going to hear a lot more about this "flat" curve that kind of forces people to group to get ahead.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  8. Drocis the Devious

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    Chris is trying to "drain the pool", as in the experience pool. Once that pool is drained, all the macroers (in theory) will have nothing to level.

    So every one macroing will skill up as much as they can, then be out of experience. But now it takes them 4 times as long to fill their pool because whatever they're using to fight with is sucking it all up. Even if they turn off those skills they're still going to have a harder time filling up their pool (4 times harder) without actually playing the game (or botting in combat). So Chris doing this now instead of waiting for another wipe, I think.
     
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  9. Cinder Sear

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    I like the idea of speed draining my 'controlled training' :) kudos! looking forward to this patch truly.. just worried BDF and company didn't get what they wanted.. it's like 'we' got a bonus :D peace
     
  10. Cinder Sear

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    For reference @Chris my pool almost never reaches high levels (perhaps you can check my training methods in logs?) This will merely allow me to gustball 4 times as fast and head out to train as normal sooner. I like this. Maybe this will prevent the gustballers from bothering the others too.. less training time since its faster.

    Come to think of it, I think I'm a pretty inefficient gustball trainer lol I always have a low pool...
     
  11. Drocis the Devious

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    I just want a fair playing field, if this gets us closer to that I'm all for it. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
     
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  12. Cinder Sear

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    Still confused how it will make things more equal, but as stated, I like this change.


    Sure should drain that pool and keep it 0'ed at all times (till we turn off our skills and fill up i guess) :D maybe we're gonna break it for others haha
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  13. Cinder Sear

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    So I feel, that this will in effect, speed up our training gustball-style.. which will help the inefficient method of training that is gustball-style (earn xp, then spend it later) and put my avatar at higher levels faster than before. I can understand this will help normal xp pools from gaining an extra amount.. but this in no way stops someone from gaming the system still.. which I thought was the goal here.

    I think we almost need to think about removing the ability to turn off skills, if you want an equal playing field o_O This knowledge on how to work the pool/xp system is not easily learnt by newcomers.. you need a college degree just to get past how the deck system really works :D
     
  14. Tiina Onir

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    *snipped to what I wanted to comment on*

    Mixed feelings on this idea. For better or worse, we are a classless system, a consequence of which is that we need some ability to cherry-pick to "build our own class" effectively. Not being able to turn things off, combined with the skill trees we have would mean that we would likely have far less variety skill sets for our characters.

    The only way I could see this working, would be if when skills got exp was better defined (I see skills gaining at... surprising times).
     
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  15. helm

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    I could perhaps tell, as one example, of my pathetic attempts to level up MultiShot in archery tree. Tried to do it "properly" with large groups of red spiders. Well, it felt just like gustball training -- as in, you couldn't meaningfully damage your targets -- except that the gustballs spiders keep constantly chasing you murderously. For hours and hours. I checked my skill tree several times to make sure it was set to "train" because it was slow enough to be almost unnoticeable (while the pool was over a million). Now after the patch, folks trying to do things properly at least have a fighting chance (no pun intended) to actually succeed in leveling something without too much pain and suffering.
     
  16. Tahru

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    That sounds like the system needs improvement. Use based skills should indeed skill up on use. I always load my deck with the skills I am training up and if I need one more, I will put a priority on using it first.

    I am in favor of less grinding to skill up to at least a useful level in a tree. WoW used to have skill based training and it was never a huge obstacle to train up something new. There was no need to game the system. I know that game is a bad word, but it is partially a bad word because they took that away.
     
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  17. StrangerDiamond

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    I'm curious about you guys argument... the exp wont pool up because it gets used in skills while you fight ?

    But what if you lock those skills while adventuring ? :p
     
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  18. Tiina Onir

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    It will still pool when you do that, but you will drain it so much faster that you will have to be doing the non-macroed pool-building more, to the point that that dominates your time.
     
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  19. StrangerDiamond

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    It sure is a step in the right direction... I'm all for BDF being allowed to level up faster so thats a plus, but he's still going to get beat by players who have macroed.

    It's kind of a bandaid situation... better than nothing tho...
     
  20. Waxillium

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    Allows him to Skill Up faster not Level Up faster.

    You still need to go out and get exp.
     
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