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Magic, Combat, and Crafting Skills

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Nov 12, 2013.

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  1. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    I said I was being pedantic. I understood what he said but it still isn't a zero sum. Not everything which is created will be destroyed: ergo, not a zero sum.

    What we will have is (something like): Created - Destroyed = Rate of Growth != 0.
     
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  2. Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

    Baron Drocis Fondorlatos Avatar

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    Ok, that's cool, and that makes sense, and I appreciate your reply.

    But please keep in mind that I've heard that from like every development team I've ever followed. And then at the end of many months, and sometimes many years, the features that seemed ultra important to the dev team during the early stages of the game (pvp, accountability, stealing) are suddenly no where to be found. And now there's just no time to implement those things because they're so complex and the dev team wants to get them "just right".

    I hope you understand that I'm not trying to ruin the holiday dinner by bringing up politics. I'm not trying to stop the parade by throwing a drunken fit in the middle of the street. I'm not trying to wreck the buffet at the Harrow club this evening. :)

    I'm just trying to make sure that the team doesn't paint themselves into a corner and this time in 2014 say something like "we're really sorry but we just couldn't get to it in Episode 1". I figure it's a little too late to show my concern then.

    But I'm fully prepared to give credit where credit is due, and if you guys really put together PVP and Stealing (from other players) and all that jazz, then I'll be the first to say "Great job taking your time to get it right!"

    Oh yeah, and a Bounty System. :)
     
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  3. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I am first to like to think that we are NOT like other Development teams. ;) But the truth is, making a video game, like any other complex programming project, is a process. Certain foundational steps have to be done before more complex systems are put in place. That's not to say that we are not thinking about all those systems along the way, however.

    Now what makes Shroud unlike other games you may have followed, is that you guys get to see the process as it well, progresses. So enjoy the ride and look forward to the cool things still to come. :)
     
  4. Dean478

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    Great information. Thank you. :)
     
  5. Favonius Cornelius

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    Not to sound like a sycophant or anything but I think I am inclined to agree with M'Lord here. :)

    Going into a system is a body of crafters creating wares, this incidentally gets recycled into loot and makes very terrible beasts have specific and realistic treasure hordes and the groundwork for stirring role play situations (I shall kill Smaug and reclaim my father's sword!) Item wear and destruction can be tweaked as needed to help eliminate overstock.

    I am still unclear as to if you will be able to sell to NPCs items for cash like many games. Not sure where gold would come from if not NPC merchants. If so you have the basis for a large item sink which generates wealth, which in turn will be spent on big ticket items like property that makes said money disappear. Availability of these gold sinks can be generated at will by the developers on a need basis. The trick would be to balance it all out juuust right.

    In terms of economic balance, its probably almost impossible to hit the ground running with a perfect system. No system can ever be perfect. What's important is to have adjustable levers the developers can pull to balance out the stresses.
     
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  6. Dermott

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    In this case, shouldn't there be a Three-Tiered system of Magic XP, Combat XP, and Crafting XP with the balance working in the way it did in UO's 3 stats where you could max two out at the expense of the third?

    If there are only Two XP systems (Combat/Crafting), then where does the Magic system come it? Is it tied to Combat forcing a min/max between Magic vs standard combat or non maxxing both for a hybrid effect?
     
  7. monxter

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    Dermott: my guess is that Magic is included in the Combat XP.
     
  8. LoneStranger

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    Usually mechanics and their dynamics are detailed and discussed before any one is completely coded. The advantage is that you can see where the potential flaws are and figure out how to work around them. Designing a system one piece at a time is a mistake. If you spend three months working on one aspect and then look to start designing a related aspect, you may find that it's too late to go back and change a mechanic that is too ingrained, either code-wise or dynamic-wise.

    Combat, PvP, Death, Stealing; they are all related. They should all be detailed in a document that states how they are related and at the very least as been iterated over a few times to remove as many potential problems as possible. You can't design combat and say you'll figure out PvP later. You can't design PvP without knowing how you are going to deal with death and combat. And you can't deal with death unless you know how you want player loot to be handled. Stealing is right in there too. They rely on each other to create the dynamics that become the system and they should be designed, on paper, at the same time.
     
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  9. MauganRa

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    While your currently skill layout leaves room for people to develop unique styles, it really is not correct.

    Masgic is Magic, which means Fire and Ice should fall under the Magic category otherwise it sounds stupid when they dont. When you start going on about having different types of Magic like Life Magic or Chaos magic, you start to sound like your developing a replica of the many World of Warcraft type games out there, that people are actually extrememly board of, and which is not even close to the reasons I and many others took interest in this game. If you want to copy everyone else out there then your product WONT be unique, it WONT have a natrual feel to it and it certainly WONT deliver to all the fans who have follow and contributed to this project that have the exceptation that this is to be a close remake/continutation of Ultima Online (Which I am already aware you have advised it is going to be a continuation).

    A skill tree should feel real, and if you want an example of a well thought and laid out skill tree then you should look at Path of Exile. They have developed a Unique skill system which does infact give something to the players to develop their own way. I know you have said you can spend your skill points where ever you like, but I still feel like you should have 1 MAGIC skill that people can practice.

    Sorry not to sound like a negative drone, but I am just voicing my opinion.:)
     
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  10. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Moderator SOTA Developer

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    See my followup post, LS.

     
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  11. tuchaka

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    A lot of info very appreciated , man its been a long time since i casted a blink spell :)
     
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  12. Phredicon

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    I'm sure the mechanics and their dynamics ARE detailed and discussed, just not with the public. I doubt a team as experienced as this one can't see where the potential flaws are. I think we are just reacting to the unheard of openness of this development process and expecting to hear EVERYTHING before they make decisions. Not likely to happen.


    LS, I am sure you know as well as I do that they have this all written down, it's just not time for it to be shared. I'd love for it to be, but seeing a lot of the reactions they get whenever they DO reveal anything I can't blame them for waiting either.
     
  13. Dermott

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    There is naturally going to be some overlap between SotA and other games, especially any game that puts their systems into "classes" or "schools" (and let's just say DnD did the Magic schools long before WoW was a gleam in anyone's eye. Simply put there are some standardized systems that are used in swords and sorcery/medieval style RPGs. Sure you won't see much originality in "Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Life, Death", but "Sun and Moon" magics would lend themselves to a VERY unique gaming experience to help set SotA apart since they will be much more closely tied to the ingame weather system.

    The skill trees as shown are a good START. With the way the game is being made, they will be added to over time filling and fleshing out. PoE's passive tree is HUGE, but it wasn't finished in a sitting. It's been tweaked and changed a few times in the process of production and may change again in the future with any expansions.

    From what I'm seeing, we're looking at what could basically be called a rough or first draft of the skill system.
     
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  14. Lord Trady of Blix

    Lord Trady of Blix Avatar

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    Although what they've planned is quite aggressive considering the resources they have allocated, there are some very experienced people working on this project that have launched some very successful games, and have failed at some other pretty high profile ones so I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing and have learned some valuable lessons.

    I know someone will bring up Tabula Rasa and or U8 and U9 to counter this argument, but I have faith in the people working on this game. Also, it's super early. Judging by the rest of the discussion, it's obvious that they cant' really answer some questions from the community because the game just isn't that far along yet.

    The minutia discussed on this board is pretty insane! Not everyone is going to get what they want. I mean I've already read posts from people who have posted here 3 or 4 hundred times already that say that they're going to quit the game and calling the developers frauds because of something they read on some third party blog-rag ! That's taking passion for the game to the extremes ! :confused::eek:
     
  15. LoneStranger

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    It sure would be grand if we could get more information on those other systems, if they exist. A "Request for Comment" on what we think the different systems should be like would be good, instead of getting a near-complete system that will probably not change much, if at all, no matter what we say. This stuff is not for the regular pledgers, so perhaps the Community Announcements forum is not the location for this discussion. I do hope that the Dev+ committees are created soon, and for more than just "proofreading" charts and lists.
     
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  16. Myth2

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    Where did you hear of Dev+ committees?
     
  17. LoneStranger

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    Do they have it all written down? You're positive on that? They might. I haven't seen a folder. Sometimes it seems like they're flying by the seat of their pants, but then again, we do get mechanics sometimes that are too far along in the process for Dev+ to actually have much input on. I enjoyed when RG asked what we thought about for music, like it was an open subject and we could actually have some say in it. But that's music, not really something as important as PvP or Death.

    Yep, they are running with minimum crew. That's what Dev+ is for. :) Lord British has foreseen this. It is our destiny. Ask us for help, and together we can rule the galaxy.... ahem. Carry on.
     
  18. Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

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    In the secret Dev++++ forums.

    I'm joking, I never heard of such a thing either. They were probably waiting to surprise me with an invite. :)

    Also, I just want to add to the previous discussion that even if the devs are not ready to release detailed information about PVP and Stealing...what would be AWESOME is if they just updated the FAQ's to say that those things would be in the game in Episode 1. Surely that wouldn't be too much of a commitment unless the developers still aren't sure about those things, in which case I think people that are very passionate about those subjects have real reason to be concerned. And not the typical "PVP options will be in the game", something with just an ounce of meat on it - like "PVP where you can kill other players and they can kill you and you don't have to ask them politely and schedule a tea party where you can both talk about your feelings, will be in the game for Episode 1."

    As much as I LOVE all the doll house decorating and crafting stuff - I don't play games to bake bread, I play to crush. (somewhere Warden just looked up into the sky and said "I sense a distrubance in the force.")*

    *I wonder if Lum has a script set-up to automatically look for Shadowbane references.
     
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  19. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Well I hope to see pet/ranch animals so I can have a bunch of alpacas for their fur cows, pigs and chickens for the butcher/tanner, and maybe horses and other animals for pets.
     
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  20. Vagabond Sam

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    FrieLotus said they are not discussing it with us.

    Not that they aren't discussing these mechanics in a wholidtic environment.

    I doubt that these things have not already been throughly discussed by the team and we just need to remember that we are not full time devs that need to be privy of every iteration they make to developing systems.
     
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