Magic System

I wonder what will magic be like in this game. This mystic word system which contained different incantations which depends of what spell was cast in the Ultima Online game was really immersive and unforgetable. In addition the use of magic in a non combat purpose (teleporting, rune marking, telekinesis, polymorphs, summoning etc.) put in a depth which ive never seen in newer games.

So what do you think magic would be like, or what would you like it to be?

 

I would like to see more out-of-combat magic and more arcane stuff. I mean, not only a spell called "Summon Fire Elemental". But why not have to perform a ritual to invoke a Fire Elemental?

Also, environmental/region magic. For instance, you could only summon a waterelemental from a stream or a lake. A spell that would make rock boulders fall, could only work in a cave.

 

I definitely think the game calls out for reagents. They are of such value in UO and i can see them being very popular in this game.

 

In real-world mysticism, just about everything constitutes a component/reagent, "in the eye of the beholder". In teaching people real-world occultism, the hardest time I've had is in overcoming what they've pulled from games, video & otherwise. (Sheesh!)

That said, please widen the component/reagent list: Lesser (cheaper) items at lower spell-level, and raise the value and/or intricacy at the higher levels.

May I also suggest nipping off to skim the pages of 1st edition "Mage: The Ascension" (White Wolf) &amp; "Authentic Thaumaturgy" by Isaac Bonewits (Steve Jackson Games), and taking a few cues from them. I'm not sure how well they'll translate into the video game medium, but the skill development in <i>attributes of spells</i> allows for greater ease in adding new spells, in the future.
They're the closest to accurate to real-life, as well, and it would do me a world of good with future students. ;]
"Nuff Said?" <i>~Stan Lee</i>

 

I'd rather see more Witchcraft/Alchemy magic, Rituals etc. rather than Fireballs and Ebolts. IMO Fireball-like magic is too old in RPG. In Darklands there was a great alchemy skill and you could make or buy wide amount of potions and depends on their feature, either throw or drink them. For instance Potion of Thunder would do the same Ebolt in UO would if thrown in the enemy.

 

I'm trying my best to be open about whatever the game brings but I have to say that I hope Lord British still owns the rights to his spells and reagents. Worst case scenario; he could always write a new lorebook with new spells and new reagents, but it is the most interesting and learning based method to spells any game has ever had. There is nothing memorable about pressing 4 and automatically shooting a fire ball as you do in most games today. There is something very memorable about having to learn a fantasy language as you buy, trade, collect and harvest the resources of a new world.

 

This is important to me as I feel that every game in recent memory has completely failed in making compelling magic systems. The best magic system I've ever seen in a game was in a text game. . . So it would be best to take as little as possible from current games as far as magic systems go!

I did a little bit of brainstorming with myself awhile ago and came up with a (admittedly incomplete) list on some things that would be important in a good magic system. Overall the goal would be to make it possible to have things that are esoteric to non-practitioners, and reduce the tendency of instances of 'magic cannon' spells.

Here's the list I made:

BASIC CONCEPTS
-Skill based system
-Progression through use
-Able to put variable power into spells
-Different effects at different power tiers
-Risk vs reward for power put in
-Risk vs reward for learning casting skills

RISKS
-Spell fails
-Spell backfires

RISK PAYOFFS
-Faster cast
-More power
-Added effect

FACTORS
-Memory (Tactical spells not rituals)
-Concentration
-Can call spells to memory with more complex spells being more difficult to do so
-Number of spells you can memorize based on memory and spell complexity

STEPS TO CAST
1. Acquire spell knowledge
2. Study until it's retained
3. Memorize (non-ritual) spells to cast them impromptu

 

@Dhuran: I like your ideas, especially putting variable power into spells and having more/less risk of failure. Use a low power quick cast spell yo finish off enemy. charge up a big power spell to open with a big attack rather than spam a bunch of standard attacks.

Also different schools of magic can be interesting, much like melee combat has different weapon types that can have attack techniques.
Ultima VIII had some really interesting magic schools.
Each one had its own reagents/tools, words, rituals. Learning each one was a unique quest.

 

Anyone who played UO knows the words Corp Por along with many other spells. I too hope Richard still owns rights to this language. For those who didn't have the honor of playing UO or just mindlessly farmed trammel without paying attention to the language don't worry you quickly learn which spells to run from Thanks again for making suck a wonderful game Richard and team!

 

I liked the magic in Ultima 8 as well. I think the base magic system in Ultima Online, while good could use some pepping up. I'd like to see different types of magic, several different types.

 

My biggest concern is that the combat system is extremely simple and fluid. So maybe I spend all day gathering reagents or building the percent books or whatever, but it can't bog down combat.

e.g. I press some button to use my fire spells. Now my 1-4 are all fire. These effects may alter based on how I'm moving or combos.

I never want to see rotations, casting priorities or cooldowns in the traditional MMO sense. Like an arcade game, if I only have a small number of buttons I need them to be all useful, all of the time and I pick the right one based on reactions to my opponent.

 

I despise cool downs. Spells should be useful depending on the situation, and if you want to spam the same spell over and over, the only thing that should limit you is a resource, such as mana or a reagent, not some dumb cool down.

I want my choice of spells to be based on my reaction to the environment, not based on the most efficient rotation of my timers. Please, for the love of god, no cooldowns.

 

Someone had a great idea in chat about making the magic system based on the new virtues.

I think that has the potential to be very intriguing.

I just hope they don't go down the boring "elemental" path.

 

If the magic system is in any way based on virtues, it needs to make sure it isn't done in a limiting way. I think when this came up in chat I heard the suggestion that perhaps people excelling in a particular virtue will have one "super" spell (like, a compassion-based person might get a particularly good healing spell), but the normal healing spell is still available to everyone. This wouldn't be terrible. Even then I don't think that I particularly like the idea, since I don't like my magical abilities to be tied to my ethical conduct.

 

My big concern with magic is Crowd Control spells like -stun, mez, fear, freeze etc., in other games these spells are great for pve, but, for pvp they can be overpowering.

If they are part of the magic system, it should be balanced with pvp in mind.

 

I don't they'll do cooldowns. They're too simple minded of a game mechanic. Like Ultima Online you should basically have a count-up for casting.

More powerful spell --&gt; more reagants and casting time

 

I was looking at the weather conversation and had a thought that is really more magic-related than weather, and it doesn't look like anyone's touched on it.

Multiple mages casting in unison = bigger/better spells

Initially I was thinking about weather-related spells. One mage can make a little blizzard, but 2+ mages working together can make a bigger and more intense blizzard (more powerful than just the sum of two little blizzards) or a combination blizzard and thunderstorm (more powerful than a little blizzard and a little thunderstorm). Same thing could work for a variety of spell types, though: healing, negating enemy magic, field effect, mind control, etc.

If one of the mages screws up and throws a "fire" type spell in with the blizzard, it cancels out some of the effect. Likewise, opposing mages could interfere by doing the same (which could create some pretty amazing large-scale magic battles).

Magicka is a fast-paced chaotic version of this idea, and Dragon Age included a number of spell combos, though not (that I'm aware of) a "multiplier" for two mages casting the same spell.

 

Summoning creatures should continue to make you lost Mana over time since you are providing a gateway through realms. If not, creature should slowly die the more it stays.

 

I would like it to be a copy of the magic system UO had before Age of Shadows released 2003, destroyed it. It still is the best ever created.
I hope LB still have the rights to use it, and also want to use it.

 

@koden: I would take the different schools a little farther even, and say different schools can have different (wildly varying) sources of power.

For instance:
- A celestial based magic is dependent would essentially be temporally variant regardless of where you are, and could perhaps have droughts and surpluses of power under certain special celestial events

- Elemental magic could rely on spatial threads or veins of power that could shift under some circumstances, so where you our could cause problems (or be really great)

- Psychic magic could rely on your distance from other minds (which more minds closer being better)

These kinds of things also open up different variations of magical items that can now modify how those rules work.

I would love for learning each spell to be a quest in and of its self. Once you've learned it, mastering how it works and reacts under different circumstances should also be 'a quest'.

There should also be different reagent/tool ways to modify spells. It would be nice for it to be relatively obscure, and also not clear how, or to what extent different things effect spells. If they are closer together in effectiveness, and subtle enough, there would be no clear winner, and you wouldn't end up with the circumstance where everyone is running around with, say, 300 bottles of naphtha to make their fireballs the best. Everyone could have their own opinion based on their experiences what works best, based on whatever testing or what have you they've done.

I'm also very for certain spells that would require a group of ritual participants in order to even function.