Make Sieges meaningfull!

No circumevent a siege, it need to be cleared or you cannot enter the town!

But then they cant do the quest, yes then they cannot finish the quest, because in MP they then need help, ask around or just need to wait.

Actually Sieges mean nothing and are only highlevel grindspots.

 

In a few posts like this I’ve commented on how the sieges could be another form of design for PoT owners. Sure, make the sieges worth doing, but make it so they are optional and inside town with the PoT owners able to design their own “sieged mode” for towns. The owners could design spawn spots for guards and mobs as well as wreckage and fires which could even be placed on player houses in the zone. It makes sieges more of a “tour of creativity” than a burden IMO. It could even be a community project if lot owners are also given “siege mode” tools to play with.

 

It is my belief that the inability to get home without clearing a siege, would be very cumbersome and unpopular with a large majority of Avatars.
Sorry, but a big thumbs down on that concept........

 

I have to agree with @FrostII , making passing through the main enemy camp in sieges mandatory would cripple player traffic to POTS and NPC towns unecessarily.

Siege high level mobs would decimate low to mid level avatars for one. And the widespread frequency of sieges would ensure that many of these places would be inaccesible to many for the duration of the siege.

How many high level avatars are there now? Not enough to keep the towns siege-free for even half of the time.

 

Currently sieges (and random encounters, for that matter) are both set up in a way that allows an avatar to more or less safely 'pass through' if they are either:

• unable (due to combat capability) or
• unwilling (due to trying to just get someplace)

to clear what we are lovingly calling these "pop up adventures," and more frequently, "nuisance zones."

Unless someone's partially cleared a siege and there are cabalists running around, there is zero danger whatsoever to an avatar passing through it, and passing through it is not an adventure, it is not fun, it is not engaging - it is two nuisance load screens on the way to where you're trying to go. While pot owners can mitigate this by denying devotionals to their residents, there's little that can be done about non-pot scenes which seem to perpetually be under siege.

To get any benefit whatsoever out of a siege you need to be at least high enough level to deal with the engineers for the drops, or even higher level to have any hope of taking on the cabalists. I'm over level 100 and consider the cabalists to be far more trouble than they are worth. I can kill them, but the loot is extremely poor and not worth the time it takes to kill them - Like most high level content/bosses, its a complete waste of time if you can't steamroll dozens of them an hour due to extremely low loot chance.

Random encounters are the opposite. While they can be nice relaxing zones for a low level to get a few resources, going to a proper, full zone (like where you were heading in the first place before you got dragged in) is going to be a far better use of your time. Even the 'offroad' higher level variants of these are sub-par to traditional gathering/fighting scenes in pretty much every way.

Sieges and Encounters, while they do have their uses, tend to be either sought after for particular objectives (like cabalist farming, or low level gathering) by a small % of folks, or fiercely hated as unwanted annoyances by the rest. Very frequently when we're trying to put a group together or meet up with people, its "Oh hang on, I got pulled into one of these stupid encounters" or "Ugh, its under siege, please wait a minute...." Its not meaningful content.

@Chris @DarkStarr
So the way I see it, this needs to go in 1 of 2 directions:

• Make sieges/random encounters more interesting/beneficial to characters of all levels
• If sieges/random encounters are to remain bypassable, then make them more easily bypassable without the load screens.

1. Make them more interesting, suggestions:
- Low level encounters could have [crafting fuel nodes] - if I could go into one of these and come out with a hundred coal/wax/curingsalt in some mix, I would get far less irritated. I'd likely not stop for a single coal node that gives me 2 coal, the rates on these would need to be bumped to make them worthwhile. Also other items that can't be harvested in abundance, like black pearls, serpent scales, sulfurous ash - all of which have existing nodes somewhere in the world so nothing new would need to be created. This would also give low level players something high level players would want perhaps stimulating trade.
-Make them more resource-dense and higher tier. I'm not going to stop and chop a handful of trees in an encounter when I'm headed to a nice zone to hunt in that has plenty of trees that are better xp.
-Link them to some sort of quest/achievement about keeping the roads safe, and credit the character for each one they clear with some sort of incremental reward, or like, a highway patrol title, or something. Clear 1000 road encounters to unlock it. I'd start clearing em.
-Trade caravan/travelling merchant -I know we had one of these before, and they were abused via scene reload to repeatedly clean them out of their merchandise. If we could figure out a way around that, a wandering trader who's got something desirable like say, 10 pine resin, or beetles, who's willing to trade them for say, the avatar clearing a log out of the road by chopping several sections, etc.
- Sieges could have mine-able obsidian nodes scattered around through the central area. Say these fell to earth in advance of the cabalists or whatever. This would make it worth having to walk through the things if you could get a handful of chips each time and low levels could even yoink a few.
-Some sort of actual benefit for 'lifting' a siege. Maybe a payout from the town crier or scout that could be handled through the task/quest system. The scout does if I recall give a one-off quest, but making something repeatable that gave a decent reward might actually be worth the avatar taking pause and doing something about the siege rather than just sprinting through. Low level quest alternatives from the scout could give something of benefit to those who can't do the combatty stuff - like carrying something to resupply the mercenary camp, or repairing blockades.

-OR-

2. Make them more easily bypassable
This would be the simplest way to 'fix' the annoying aspects and extra load screen aspects and the delay in joining your friends or going about your business aspects -
You know how we sometimes get that popup, your party leader has gone to xx, do you want to follow?
Give us that for these.

Something along the road has caught your eye ...investigate? YES NO. If no, then you don't.
This town is under siege. Do you wish to fight through the siege lines YES NO If no, then you sneak in the back gate or whatever.

This would not be imbalancing in any way, as we already ALLOW a bypass by simply running through the no-danger route, the only thing we're talking about is saving extra, unneeded time consuming load screens.



Personally, I'm in favor of doing both: make them more interesting, and give players the choice.
Some days, I've got limited play time, and by time I siege-and-encounter my way to where I'm going, I've lost 45 minutes. Its frustrating.

 

I like this, but i'm tired of compromises and complex solutions.
AtM i prefer plain and simple decisions.
Make SotA handholding, bypassing and a full of options game, nor fish neither flesh and see how less people want to play these (imo bad) compromises or decide for more consistency and some unpopular Design decisions to at least get your hardcore UO and Ultima Fans.
There is nobody else you can earn money with.
The 150 people here wont make it.

 

Actually I think if there would be enough quests available a temporarily not accessible quest location would be no problem even if it is a story quest.
Thinking about it I would prefer too that sieges wouldn’t have a “secure path”. Just run as fast as you can if you really think that you need to break through the siege and if you die and ankh at both exits would be most reasonable to offer this as an option to pass the encounter.
Also the sieges shouldn’t disappear if no one is fighting the besiegers. Maybe instead there could be stages of a siege e.g. each one lasting one hour.

first stage - building a siege
Just some troops are around and they are starting to build siege engines and defensive structures. Stopping the siege in this state is most easy. (t1-2)

Second stage – start of siege
Main forces arrived, everything is prepared and besiegers start to attack the village. (t3-4)

Third stage – siege at full work
The weakest besiegers died or got strong enough to survive...just strong ones are left. Everyone is battlewise and the besiegers are forming brigade groups with one stronger leader. (t5)

Fourth stage – fight back starts
Soldiers inside and outside the town formed an offensive against the besiegers. Fights are everywhere and obsidian leaders appear more often trying to break the defenders. (t5+)

Fifth stage - last resistance
Defenders and besiegers lost many troops and the battlefield is filled with dying or dead people. The last resistance nests of the besiegers can be found around the siege engines as they try to regroup but the end of the siege seems to be unavoidable. (t4-t5)

So to say if no avatar is taking care of a siege the NPCs will do it themselves over time.

With PoTs it is true that you could just present the result of a siege but not the process of a siege.
I think at first there would be needed some additional deco items like catapults, rubble piles, siege towers, battering rams, walls with holes/impacts, …
Second there would be needed mechanics for siege engines. E.g. a catapult is shooting at everyone within a 20 x 10 meter area that is 50 meter in front of the catapult, a siege tower that is moving if 5 NPCs or avatars are standing close to one side, …
Third there would be needed possible spawn points and AI rules for NPCs as besiegers that are just standing at one spot are boring. Maybe you would have to define a path the besiegers are using or just a target they are trying to accomplish (e.g. move to tavern). Also there is needed a goal for both sides e.g. either killing 100 besiegers or 20 besiegers reach e.g. the tavern and defined consequences if the one or other goal is reached.

But of course such mechanics could be used also for other possibilities in both NPC and PoTs. E.g. there could be trader caravans that are moving through towns/scenes that use such mechanics or beggars that appear in towns and stay until they “earned” enough money to start a new live or a group of thieves that sometimes roam through towns to plunder unsecured/public chests or animal migrations with e.g. dozens of deer’s that are sometimes moving across a scene or…

Of course such changes would need time but maybe for EP3 this could be an option.

 

Not a viable option while death decay is still a thing, particularly as a barrier to enter towns.
I do like the idea of the NPCs dealing with it as a long term option but it still doesn't address the siege/encounter as frustrating impediments to normal gameplay issue.

 

With the number of towns that are constantly under siege, one would think that Lord British would dispatch the royal army to deal with this threat to the realm.

 

@Stundorn makes a good point. Many of the things in the game meant to be obstacles (sieges, control points, etc.) have been made passable for convenience. I think if you're on a main quest to an area, it should remain that way. But if you just want ease of access to all areas because it is the most efficient way to grind...then the game will always simply focus on the grind. These obstacles do need to be more meaningful, more engaging, and more fun.

Haven't you heard? The coffers are bare. Lord British cannot afford conscripts. Perhaps he should invoke a 'telethon'.

 

Actually I do not like that much to participate in discussion about this topic as I do not understand the big problem many have with decay.
If I currently die I lose at level 71 or 72 around 10k exp and that’s maybe 10 enemies I have to kill to get it back. On my next death I lose 5k and so on....and to kill those needed enemies I do not need hours at the most it's 10 minutes.
That is in my opinion not a thing to talk about …actually I “lose” quite more experience if I’m talking with avatars or if I’m decorating something or if I'm reading/writing in this forum as this takes up a lot more time.

Also the death would just be a "problem" for avatars below maybe level 50 or 60 as everyone else should be able to make it through the scene by simply running without looking back and everyone below…well it is a siege with t5+ enemies…that is a dangerous place to be and I do not see there either a easy public footpath for avatars to reach e.g. the obsidian forge or the titans.

 

Sieges are a hot topic for me. My guilds PoT has 8 devotionals out and I am constantly annoyed by having to run through sieges. Seiges are nothing but a complete annoyance for me. Design wise, I think most people expected something vastly better built.... but in the end was a victim of the dev's just not having the money, time and man power to do more, in the end doing the best they could so they could check that kick started option off.

 

Fair enough point that if you're dying in a siege you're probably a low enough level that decay isn't a problem.

 

Think they should limit so was max 1 siege in each region.

 

sometimes I'll farm them however when I'm involved with some other activity, I usually just run through them myself. Sieges haven't added much for me. Unless I'm missing something

 

What about no Vendors, no interaction with any NPC as long as there is a Siege?

 

So - @Lars von Drachental - you have decided that your char is content to remain at AdvLvl 71 and not advance further ? Is that true ?

 

I don't think that would fly. However, vendors could have limited stock. Right now, you can see most vendors have 400 of their common item and 15 or so of uncommon ones. Limit those to 20 and 1 of each, and buying things becomes painful. (Right now, its how many you can buy in one purchase, but I'd hoping eventually you need to wait some amount of time for them to restock.)

 

I was under the impression that sieges could affect a town's activities. I don't recall where I read that. May have been during a conversation somewhere.

You would think that makes sense. If a city is under siege, services wouldn't be as expected. Resources aren't restocked as regularly. Prices would go up! Things are tougher to get. People are huddling in corners, hiding from those Evil Cabalists.

Just some random thoughts.

 

i just remembered Tabula Rasa. when some Bane take over an outpost - no vendors or Quest NPC - nobody cried if they then couldn't finish the quest, they tried later or they called for help to shift the Outpost back to AFS and kill all Bane.