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Many people stopped playing

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Edward Newgate, Sep 6, 2015.

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  1. Albus

    Albus Avatar

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    I think that is one of the points of the concept of skill decay, to prevent anyone from ever permanently "beating the game" and finding no more room for improvement because they have all the skills maxed out. If one theoretically did get all skills to 100, if having max skills is their thing they still have incentive to keep at it to mainain their skills; without skill decay, the same player would have it all and have their thing completed, in some cases with such situation such players may call for more game development to give them more levels to gain or more skills to master or caps lifted on skill so they can keep going. In effect, skill decay -despite creating "soft caps" - also creates a sort of endless cap, as you always have incentive to "keep on skilling" if that is your thing, you are never truly "done" even if somehow you did hit 100 across the board.

    I am only touching on just this one angle of the skill decay issue, but one I've not really seen considered much in this thread and other angles I think of seem well considered and expounded upon in this thread already, I'd just be adding my opinion onto them rather than any further insight. I have mixed feelings about skill decay myself and feel my satisfaction with it will depend upon the final numbers. I want players to be able to be very skilled in multiple fields if they want to put their gametime into that, but I like the idea that your efforts can always be rewarded with no "hard cap" giving the sense that you are all done. Will skill decay, once balanced and working to developer satisfaction make progression feel meaningful with always more to achieve, or will it make progression seem impossible with your skills always falling back so you feel no achievement is possible? I'm hoping for the former ;)
     
  2. David J Thompson

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    I also read your post and was very much hoping to see what your thoughts were about use. Really i wanted to see what advice and suggestions you could give the developers to improve it.
     
  3. Sindariya

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    When I read the first time about decay I liked it. Because it should prevent players from becoming master in all skills and it they worked in a system, that protects players that can't play so often to suffer under a big decay. But now after playing and gaining more and more skills I ask myself, how should I be able to keep them. We have some skills that I use only events. Some have two settings of skills, one for PVE and one for PVP. And now you have to work against windmills to keep them. You are forced into actions, that you perhaps don't like. Decay at the moment is punishment for playing. It should not hurt if a player want to waste XP to gain level 200 in a skill and gain perhaps that way 10% more effect. the amount of XP needed for that will stop player from doing so, but if someone is dedicated to it, let him be. I know the devs thinking on long terms. But how motivating is it if you have your skills after 6months and than only have to fight to keep it? Will you change your playstyle because of that? We need a way to progress even in 5 years. But if my progress is only to keep status quo I will stop doing it. If they want to slow down the people than do it, over gaining the skills not by taking away progress. It is the same as it was dicussed with death. If we die there is a XP debt we have to pay but we still gain XP and level but slower. We don't lose XP. This way it has to be with skills.
     
  4. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Most of the changes that have happened are base don customer feedback and request.


    Decay would not occur in the time frame of any the rxamples you gave but i know what you are saying. If your gone for a month and a half and decay does occur, it is only one point, and by the time losing 1 point is painful, the skill that lost it wouldnt suffer any noticable effectivness. Thats only assuming youhavent locked theskill so that it doesnt decay.

    Is it just that you can see, for example, 120 drop to 119 across 12 skillsat oncethat upsets yall?
     
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  5. Arkah EMPstrike

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    The decay system is being tested because the alternative was a hard cap on skills. The benifit you recieve forgettinga skill past 100, oreven 90 is miniscule and would be largely unnoticable. that means any skill you have above this point would essentially just be buffer to prevent decay from doing any real damage to your character. Uless its one of the skills you have markedfor decay.

    In any case, im not sure how many people "left" outside of the few im aware of, but i'd really wished this thread could have its subject changed to "skill decay discussion" or something to imply it.
     
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  6. Themo Lock

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    We didn't leave! a group of us are just playing Starbound and another group is playing Day Z and a third group is playing Ark.. we will be back :p
     
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  7. Etheom

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    I've just returned to R21 from a long break, not playing since R16. I've noticed massive improvements across the board, especially in combat. I haven't played long enough to develop a huge list of wishes and wants, but I have two solid recommendations:

    • Create a way to reset an entire skill box.

    For example, if I level a magic school all the way to max on every skill and decide I'd like to completely reset 1 of the skill boxes, that would give me the ability to fine tune my character's progression and I could even reset the entire magic school if I wanted, box by box. We should only be able to reset the skill box if that skill is not a pre-requisite.


    • Create a way to choose a limited number of "master skills", allowing us to choose a few skills that we decide truly define us as a character, allowing for these skills for decay at a much slower rate than our normal skills.

    For example, I decide to max every single magic school in the game. One day it dawns on me that Life magic and Earth magic are what define me as a character in SOTA. I choose a limited number of skills within these schools as my "master skills", and even after taking a 7 week vacation with my real life family, these skills will have decayed much slower. On my return I will find my character having lost many, many skills throughout the tree that I've worked very hard on, but the few skills that define me remain in my muscle memory and nearly unchanged, like poet writing poetry.


    Cheers :D


    @DarkStarr
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  8. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Thats what i told ed!

    Why havent you started a thread about your "beyond 100" progression idea yet?

    @themo lock
     
  9. majoria70

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    Edward so back to the OP comments about people stopping playing. This thread has gone other places, but to address that point, here is my thoughts and not a criticism of course.

    So I sympathise and understand that some will worry that their friends won't play or will quit. The thing is yes some will quit, some will not have patience to see this through, some cannot see what's possible, they just see what is not there yet that they want and have no faith it will be there, or perhaps it will be even better than they imagined once the game is completed.

    I have a friend who is not playing at all. He thinks he will not want to play this game, but has pledged. He has no patience for the development situation. I am not worried about it because the game being made is going to be the kind of game he likes. he will be back. I do not try to talk him into playing releases, but I will let him know when to check it out agian, which is not right now, since I know him. ;)

    So I think we have to just keep our focus on getting the game made very wonderfully. I see you doing that already all the time for the good of the game. You do such a terrific job rallying for the game and giving great comments and feedback. So what I mean is by looking ahead and we keep imagining all the interesting possibilities we see for this game and we keep the ideas and feedback coming. There is not anything else we can do for the naysayers and quitters, except to hope that once all the game is completed they will come back and see the game in all it's glory, as we knew and trusted it would one day be. So hang in there and let your friends know you will watch out for their interest by participating in the development of this game to the very end to see it be the best game it can be. Then you will be able to advise them when to come back, and you can say "ok here ya go, let's play!" :)
    edited
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  10. Spoon

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    People leaving and then coming back a few releases down the line is a good thing.
    Lots of people got alpha burn playing the same content over and over too many times, better that they take a break and come back than them quitting.
     
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  11. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Having to train lower tier skills as a pre-requisite is a way to prevent people from only taking the strongest skills from each tree.

    There will be a way to lock skills so that they do not decay. But it wont be free
     
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  12. Themo Lock

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    Because Chris is out to get me! if i do anything awesome it will be removed from the game :eek:
     
  13. Arkah EMPstrike

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    They are intending to use it as a way of making sure people cant get over 9,000! In everything without having to impose a hard cap on skill progression.

    If the decay timer stops every time you log off, then it doesnt accomplish that.
     
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  14. Themo Lock

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    There is no need for decay with scaling exp requirements for levels, you get to the point where it would require a year + grind to gain 1 level... like it was before.
     
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  15. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Or made insanely tough the next release.

    *sgrunt*
     
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  16. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    That's my uttermost doubt.

    WHY it is a Bad Thing if it happens? Objectively, what could happen of so catastrophic?

    I don't really get it.
     
  17. Lao Yang

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    I remember for crafting the devs stated sometime somewhere (long ago), that they do not want people to be able to craft everything by themselves, as this would hurt the economy. Self sufficiency doesn't stimulate trade. So limiting the production skill points or what they call it is a logical conclusion.
    As for combat it's up for speculation. But I imagine that someone maximally trained including all passives will mob the floor with average Joe. Yeah so my guess combat limitations because of *drums* Pvp.
     
  18. Rat2

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    I'm sorry, but my time is worth something. I don't have any interest in skill grinding my whole game career. Anything that takes away from what I have earned with my time in game will cause me to look elsewhere. There are a lot of games that I can go back and pick up where I've left off. That's an invitation to return. Knowing that you are going to come back and have to redo painful, boring skill grinding is an invitation to leave.
     
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  19. Etheom

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    I made an edit to the original recommendation, with the new wording of "Create a way to reset an entire skill box." There was a misunderstanding because I wasn't recommending anything associated with removing pre-requisites. Indeed we need pre-requisites and I don't contest that.

    Excellent I'm happy to hear they have plans to lock skills!
     
  20. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Ok, that's an answer I can understand.

    But once we compute in the equation the sheer amount of time it takes for all the skills to reach max level, even in crafting, the wannabe master of all trades, self sufficient individual has ALREADY built three Brittany's worth of stuff. He'd already crafted an inordinate amount of items to reach that point anyway, and he's a true powerhouse in crafting. Why stopping him from getting the rewards for his hard work? Or better, is a point out of 100 really going to stop him?

    For PVP, what is the deal limiting a player to all lvl99's, intead of giving them free reign of going to all 100's, when pitted against Joe H. Average?

    I mean, even with decay, a near-max PVP'er will always mop the floor with a run of the mill combatant.

    I know asymptotes enough to know that you don't need to reach infinity, if for all practical purposes, your approaching it is more than enough.

    Still unsure if this is a good idea or not.
     
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