Marking runes and travel?

Actually theres something that forces me. It's called metagaming.If recall is cheap and easy, I'm gonna recall too as it is convenient, but I'm not sure I will want to stay in this kind of game for long.

 

The 5 on one melee vs mage is classic gank ... there is no skill with that sort of odds, there is no long term advantage for the game to support it by preventing escapes.

If I was going to PVP with a solo mage .... I'd want to be able to specialize in escape ... AoE/personal stuns (say 3-5s - if not hit) ... Short Hop Escape (say 100m) ... recall/gate (3-5sec cast time) ... if there is not enough methods of escape, I won't PVP mage, they are simply too fragile.

As long as its not scripted, it would still need some skill to pull off ... the Stun might need to be channeled, and could be resisted ... then the short hop might need to be channeled (though possible only the one that resisted not the 5 thugs that started this gank) ... and maybe an arrow to be channeled during the recall. So not easy, but possible.

 

There is certainly no long term advantage for the game to permit a plague of solo PK mages, which is what you'd get with Recall. In fact, that would represent a long term disadvantage. So, should the game permit widespread solo mage PKs, or should solo mage PKing be a nonviable tactic?

 

Open PVP and PK are quite different philosophies ... My mage could be open PVP travelling to a group to complete an Open PVP quest, and be capable of defending myself against most random encounters ... part of that capable defending myself should be the ability to flee successfully.
How is a mage being ABLE to FLEE the cause of a plague?
The open PVP world will be much less rich if you can ONLY group. Make a duel world where gangs ALWAYS prey on individuals (or only when they outnumber them 5 to 1 - cause they CANNOT fight 1 on 1) with its paired world where you might meet some more balanced encounters ... I wonder where most people will be?
Force PVP where PVP is inherently broken is a poor recipe. From what I've read to date, I don't think that is what is intended here.

 

The idea is that I can run around and kill anyone I want, and if I'm not strong enough or there are too many enemies, I can just escape.

Your idea about forced groups is legitimate, though I remember a very different scenario in UO. I recall being able to raid 3 or 4 people solo as long as you were quick enough to catch them off guard and kill 1 or 2 of them before they could organize.

 

If you want to solo, why are you in OPO? If you don't feel you can protect yourself while solo, why are you flagged for open PvP?

 

Good point.

If it's flags rather than PvP/non-PvP areas, then we don't need to worry about how "the innocent" escape/survive; they can just not flag for PvP (or for guild war only etc.).

Our issue seems to be finding a way to prevent - specifically - PvP aggressors just recalling out, without our solution screwing up play for other play styles.

Outside the box suggestion - what if Recall/Gate was easier to trace/follow? So that it wasn't actually an "escape" (unless you went to a guarded area, etc., which one couldn't do if the PvP aggressor)?

 

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Not only PvP agressors, but all players. Thats very important. You cant just "magically" not let agressors recall while others can recall at will. Equal rules for everyone.

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I recall, then I just run off into the woods. Good luck finding me.

 

Oh please. It says who murdered you. Go find them at a later date. Tell your friends. Put out a hit on the murderer. It's not like you can't find the person ever again.

Plus, you've just been murdered. What are you going to do to catch the murderer anyways? Chase them in ghost form like the boogie man? You're dead. They got you. Get better at PVP.

Get him before he gets you. Engage him in combat so he can't teleport away. It's not hard, dude. UO doesn't even allow you to teleport away in the middle of combat. If everyone is fighting, that recall mage can't just blip away. The game disallows it.


You crack me up, Owain. You talk about how people need to adapt to survive, and learn how to PVP better, and all this stuff that is more or less a "sink or swim" mentality regarding PVP, but then you complain because a wizard can blow your face off and teleport away.

Case in point:

If you can't protect yourself from gank-mages that will kill and recall, go out with friends so it doesn't happen. If one mage can screw up an entire gang of you and teleport away, what that really means, most likely, is that you guys aren't very good, and should go practice some more.

How is this a bad thing? The same thing happens when you're PVMing. You enter a room and go "oh crap" and run away and teleport before you die. That's a legitimate strategy.

Characters being unable to use their powers/skills to escape harms way just because it screws up the "balance" of players basically just beating on each other back and forth for no real reason is nonsense.

This is a bad thing? If they are off guard and you kill them, that's their fault.

 

If we are going to make death have meaning and be generally undesirable, we need to allow options for fleeing, retreat, and recall. This will encourage adventurers to explore new and dangerous locations, especially if they are at risk of losing their possessions. Some ideas:

• If your recall is tethered to your "rent" location, either your house, or an inn, or some other special landmark, then it greatly limits its power. Sure, you can pop out of combat to survive, but oops you're an hour away back in town. Maybe use a complex ritual to move the tether.
• Make it so the ritual to move your recall tether only works during certain astronomical alignments [I like this one]. You must choose wisely if you can only change it once a month or so.
• If the moongates or lunar portals are indeed tied to the movements of celestial bodies, they may not be under our control at all. Or perhaps it's tied to the Tesla towers.
• Make "recall", "portal", and "summon" high level spells. Just make it rare. It's also very motivating when you see a high level character do something you can only dream of. I think this is also a good recommendation for strong heals and for identify.
• Likewise, make lower level characters purchase scrolls of recall and make them expensive. Like, more expensive than seems reasonable. Limit the number that are stocked and that drop. This will keep the value (and cost) high and help prevent casual use, and could even promote trade among such items.
• Especially for something that works for the group, like a Staff of Recall. Make items like this equivalent to an "epic" drop.
• Make certain areas (especially in dungeons) anti-recall, or gate-proof. I would even like to see restrictions like this rated with a level -vs- the spell level. (so a top level mage could recall where less skilled wizards might not be able to). Some areas might be completely magic proof.
• Other fantasies have used deep concentration, or deep knowledge of an area, as requirement for this kind of travel. The Trumps from Amber, or gateways from WoT. Long casting time, as Owain mentioned.
• Make multiple types of these spells that have varying uses and practicality. For instance, maybe the spell to GTFO takes too long to cast in combat, but you can learn a 'blink' spell that does a random teleport within a few hundred yards. This spell might let you get out to run, hide, or buy you time for the full recall spell.
• Allow some mobs to follow through moongates, or to even follow you with a portal of their own. Imagine the reactions to that!

In general, I think recall should be about safety and not about convenience. We all know the adrenaline rush that comes with narrowly recalling out of certain Doom. I think it is a very encouraging feeling for players to have.

 

Historically, recall was a big reason why PvP got out of hand on UO. If there had been no recall/gate spell, PKs would have been hunted to extinction. We can test that hypothesis during the Alpha/Beta tests.

 

If you want to solo, why are you in OPO?​

I had said as my reason, I was flagged for a Open PVP quest, and on my way to a group. Generally capable of looking after yourself, I suggested included being able to run from an ambush, especially if you're on your guard.

I didn't play UO, I've played EQ, EQ2, WoW, Shadowbane and various others ... I've played solo and as a dedicated raider in a guild. With a young family I know I'm going to be more casual than I was when I was younger. I don't think Recall will make or break PvP, but as has been indicated above, if death is meaningful and there is no way to flee an ambush then people will decide adventuring is too risky without a group, and SotA looses a bunch of causal players, as you need escape techniques for PvE as well.

I'm with Arkhan, if I get ganked without good reason - I think a hit on the group of murderers is appropriate. I'll trash talk their Rep in their town with NPCs and generally come sideways at them. I won't have the strong guild backing I've had in previous games, because most of those players are parents now as well, they've stopped playing. Which is why, for the most part I won't be Open PVP, except on dedicated quests. But are they going to have one set of travel for PVP and one for non-PVP? People would be flicking back and forth, just to enable ports.

 

Really? I thought the overall griefing attitude of PKers was why it got out of hand. yknow, all the vendor traps, champ spawn invasions, resource-camping/killing...

Like I said, you can't recall during combat in UO, so, they flee after they kill you. Not during the act of killing you. If they leave after you're already dead, how is that unfair? You died. They have no other reason to be there. Might as well teleport away and drop all your stuff off in their house, right?

Also, like it's been said repeatedly, this game isn't even UO. It's not UO 2.0, either.

We might as well stop referencing UO, and comparing this to that.

 

Why?

Plenty of games - including UO - do not have equal rules for everyone. UO gives murderers a vastly harder time than everyone else.

Different people are looking for different things from the game, so why not let some elements work differently for some play styles?

 

Yes main factor that PvP got out of hand pre trammel was as you say the grief mentality of players. They had no ingame mechanics that prevented their griefing.

When statloss was introduced in UO you could see a huge decline in griefing PK:s (more then 5 murdercounts).

Problem with UO statloss was that it was "kinda" easy to macro off your statloss murdercount time as a ghost and resurect when that was done without having to retrain skills. With a harder version of statloss the felucca problem with griefing would have been alot less common and that would have been a harder blow for griefing PK:s then removing recall. Lets say there was no timelimit to macro off your murdercounts and you were forced to retrain your skills, such a system would have been effective in removing the griefing newbie PK:s. This was never tested though since developers instead decided to introduce trammel.

I agree with Owain though that without recall it would have been harder times for PK:s.

 

I don't think there will be open PvP quests. Open PvP is the top rung of the ladder. PvP quests, according to Richard Garriott in one of his dev chats, are intended to introduce PvP to PvE players, and so they should be limited in scope, and probably won't include elements that I hope will be in open PvP, such as full loot.

 

If we don't want SotA to be UO2, why are you so insistent on retaining elements from UO, particularly elements that led to problems in UO. I'm trying to make SotA less like UO. You are trying to make SotA more like UO. You should address your complaint to yourself.

 

I'm thinking you should all get a room work out your real issues together outside the public's eye.

The OP was clearly answered early on, thanks Fireangel.

The fact that moderators or staff can't lock toxic crap like this up faster is a real issue.

 

I would appreciate a little extra moderation on this and other threads to keep them on topic. Some of these arguments amount to spam.
Someone's sounding pretty sane in the Membrane! Should we be worried?

I'm cringing as I type this but .. On the PVP aspect of recall, and relating to recent talk about damage types - what about damage types or effects that PREVENT certain types of magic from working, such as recall. Maybe it temporarily changes your tether to your current location, so you recall and go nowhere. Or maybe the spell fizzles. There could also be spells like "Astral Net" or "Stasis" that prevent teleportation.

 

If SotA has similar spells to the ones in UO, paralyze would fill the bill, and would be applicable in a multitude of circumstances, and not just recalling, but that still requires you to be present, and doesn't address the original problem where the PK accomplishes a quick kill and recalls out before he can be apprehended. That was one of the problems associated with PvP in UO, and one which SotA should not duplicate.