Meaningful PVP

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Antrax Artek, May 1, 2019.

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  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    The "I will be forced to quit, because it's not the game I bought and spent thousands on" part is applied on both sides, all interesting and worthy contents in game are behind a PRIVATE MODE Wall and btw the meaningful PVP part of the game was advertised too and was my #1 reason to buy it.
    If these zones have the same content of safe zones but just with improved spawn time considering they're multiplayer only, nothing would prevent you from completing this content elsewhere. The game wasn't sold saying that multiplayer and pvp zones should have had the same spawn time and rewards as safe areas in private mode.
    Anyway the changes proposed in each case referred to the existing pvp zones and to the future zones that could be added.

    Considering that all these changes would not affect your gameplay in any way and would favor the gameplay of a large number of players (seeing the likes and the approval of this thread), the being forced to leave sounds more like a selfish whim rather than a necessity.

    Could be cool but I'm not sure if despite the incredible consensus from the community, this thread has attracted the attention of the devs but it would be interesting to understand in order of difficulty what would be simpler to implement and do it gradually release after release.


    About the full loot part i have to agree, despite the full loot is a motivating aspect for many it would keep even some pvpers away from pvp, SotA does not seem to be the appropriate title for this loot system. I wonder if maybe one day, with a better player base, they can add a specific very hardcore pvp area where this could happen.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  2. Spoon

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    for a different take on that.
    The old player suggestion (apart from the unfeasible full loot) from way back in 2013-2014 was that the scene loot would be full loot while prior inventory wouldn’t.
    So the stuff you bring into a scene would be safe, but anything you earn in the scene wouldn’t be, including what you looted from others.

    Which could lead to some fun rugby-esque stuff.


    Also, I would like for timed event which brings in everyone who wants to fight into the same scene, kinda like this suggestion of mine:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...cending-drop-in-shardfalls.43808/#post-487865
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  3. Elrond

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    New ransom mechanic

    - Winner gets to pick 1 item the avatar has equipped that cant be ransomed.
    and
    - Game assigns 1 item randomly that can be ransomed.
     
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  4. Helvig Ingvildsdottir

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    That would surely be great for commerce.

    For me it would be a reason never to PvP where that rule applies. Good gear is too expensive and too hard to find in SotA to lose a good piece (of the victor's choice) every time I'm defeated. Within a week I'd be without equipment and without gold.
     
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  5. Elrond

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    Once they add crafting specialisation ..things will change...alot.... the good gear will be at material costs.
     
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  6. oplek

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    "Meaningful PVP" doesn't require the abandonment of one of the core game mechanics (insofar as it can be subjectively defined). Is that your argument? There were two advertised points - one that's easy to define and understand (consensual PVP), and the other that's subjective and nebulous (you have disagreement from PVPers in this very thread) - and the solution is to ... toss one of those out?

    "Meaningful PVP" was never advertised as the ability to attack anyone, anywhere, at any time, against their will.

    That's true, and I've stated in the past that I'm fine with PVP zones having bonuses. My problem is carving up the game content such that large swatchs of the content of the game is behind that PVP wall, so that the advertisement of "consensual PVP" drops from 98-99% upheld promise, to 33-50% upheld promise.

    It would be arrogant of me to go into Eve Online, and insist that they should add a PVP opt-out flag. Open full(half) loot PVP is at the heart of the game. I've seen a few people actually propose this, and the response from the community is the correct, "No. Go away." At the heart of SOTA is this idea that the full game is available to everyone, and if you want to PVP, you only need enable it. PVP arenas are an exception to this, because they're focused on being PVP arenas.

    It would affect my gameplay, because suddenly a lower percentage of the game is now unavailable to me.... game content that I helped fund.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2019
  7. Antrax Artek

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    Indeed no one has ever talked about "the ability to attack anyone, anywhere, at any time, against their will" , this is your statement not mine.

    The large swatchs of contents suggested in this thread are so large cause, basically, pvp contents have never been added for about 3 years (obsidian trials aside) compared to the myriad of pve/social/housing/crafting contents that have been added.
    Also the consensual PVP it has never failed and it won't be even if they add the suggested contents, until you're not forced it's consensual, it sounds like you want to partecipate to pvp contents without pvping, you have to admit that it seems very illogical.

    You funded and bought a game which stated that there would be areas exclusively pvp and now you oppose the existence or improvement of these.
    The fact that you founded a game knowing in advance that there would be these areas and the fact that you don't want to enter it is your mistake, you can't expect these to be forgotten and discouraged in favor of your personal gameplay (although this has already happened for years, but here in italy we says, "they give you a finger and you demand an arm")

    It will not affect your gameplay since when you agreed to buy and finance the game you were aware of this like i was aware that much of the developer's effort would have gone to aesthetic factors and dance parties.

    The real promise was broken when they stopped working on pvp in favor of the rest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2019
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  8. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Or... make open-world pvp have consequences such as full loot but maybe battlegrounds for sparring in capture the flag, gust ball or other type of scenarios. I mean, if people think it's such a big deal, don't get rid of it, but just provide other, also meaningful, options.
     
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  9. Helvig Ingvildsdottir

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    Giving this a bump, because I'd hate for this topic to be forgotten.

    The PvP testing Atos did in Kahli on Thursday was interesting enough, but basically lacked almost everything that makes PvP fun for me. Besides, the lag was insane (anyone else seen purple curtains all over the place?). I hope at least the collected data about that will help Chris improve this issue for all of us.

    @Chris : Is it possible to give rough estimates about the development effort for the suggestions listed in the OP? Storypoints or even t-shirt sizes would suffice, just so people get a rough impression on what may be doable and what not.
     
  10. City Slicker

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    Bump. because i agree mostly of what antrax is saying. and i want the devs to see this and to discuss more about this topic
     
  11. Hemswal The Descended

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  12. Bow Vale

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    The word that shall never be spoken....'Factions', was spoken of in a Chris stream last week. No details really but from memory he stated they were looking at it as a team and planning how to go forward. Heard similar before but fingers crossed maybe this time something gets done....
     
  13. majoria70

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    Well we can only hope. Having the raid system not on the top of the to-do list is ridiculous. We need to be able to create large groups for many game-play reasons. Large raid groups to overtake areas, capture flags, take down a dragon invasion or other event. It needs to allow healing and resurecting of our raid team members.

    Raids groups could also be used for role play or syncing music with more players than 8.

    Hopefully we'll get ability to create and have timed events soon. That is another missing.
     
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  14. Hemswal The Descended

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  15. Sentinel2

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    I'd consider PvP cept it's not really worth the risk.

    And PvP area's aren't necessarily better than non PvP scenes. Needs a pass to correct that.
     
  16. Violet Ronso

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    Exactly, why would I risk all these items for a 10% exp boost when I can reach max exp/hour just fine without it, that is already a useless bonus, and Shsrdfalls/PvP zones have NOTHING of merit, barely any exp/hour, barely any worthwhile loot, the only possible extra is someone else's ransom, which wont necessarily be anything special. PvP IMO right now is High risk vs low reward, and the reward often depends on who my opponent is and how much risk he is willing to take, so why even bother? Just for the fun of it? No ransom PvP is PvP for the fun of it, actual in zone PvP should offer something...
     
  17. Rat2

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    Making "PVP Meaningful" should mean turning into a contest instead of serial mugging. Unlimited skill gain and simple slaughter isn't going to bring new people into PVP. There are no simple character builds that people can use to get started in PVP. Also, level 140 is the new 120, 100, 80. For PVP to be viable let alone meaningful, there has to be a fast path to a competitive build. In WoT, Rise of Flight, War Thunder, and a lot of other games, you can jump into a vehicle and go shoot things. Here, you'd best be in a guild or have regular friends that can take you down to the XP farm several times a day to fast-build your character. Your whole game can be killing undead in a dark room. Not much of fun for an MMO. Start by moving some of the stat buffs into tactics or have a way to get them that is exclusive from magic (you can have one or the other). Ten minute potions aren't very useful as the effects run out at inopportune times and magic buffs last far longer.


     
  18. A'chelata

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    Did something get done? It's only been . . . . . years waiting for pvp content that will probably never come.

    for months and months to catch up. I think that's called 'balance', thankfully, we have a great team with a long history of perfecting that.
     
  19. Sentinel2

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    On rare occasions I've gone to PVP shardfalls to harvest wood. At least I used to. There is one which is slightly better than the forests I think. Had some guy attack and kill me. Other than a little wood, I really didn't have anything of interest. I have a PvP bag where i drop my stuff into before approaching any of those scenes.

    BTW, s/he was pissed. Besides a body part, I think there was a torch and a basic weapon taken from me. Killing me was more a waste of their time and I left shortly afterwards.

    The basic weapon wasn't one of the best I can make. They were welcome to it ;-)
     
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  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    It occurred to me last night that ransom based PvP is another of the throwback systems from the last century. A new and interesting idea back then, but just an old and inconvenient one now.

    I am interested in the No Ransom December, although I have to say I'm only a little interested. Why? Because very rarely will I meet someone of my Skills level/Gear level (not skill level). So it will never really be the kind of fight that I would find interesting more than once.

    As I was musing about this stuff, I found myself just wishing Shroud had a First Person Shooter mode. Yeah, I said it. I'd like to just be able to fight on a fair playing field, no billion hours of UT required. Just pull the trigger and if I hit I do the same amount of damage as the other guy, and whoever wins wins.
     
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