MINING IS BROKE?!?!? WHEN will it be fixed?

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Humblemeister, Jun 18, 2017.

?

How Long will it take to become a GM Blacksmith and Masterworker under the current Ore available?

  1. It will probably never happen in my lifetime

    38.9%
  2. I will be old and grey IF it ever happens

    22.2%
  3. In a few years while I enjoy playing the overall game

    41.7%
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  1. zyxe

    zyxe Avatar

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    I don't mind the time it takes to level up the mining GM skill, what I mind is the fact that in order to level up mining beyond Owl's Nest Mine is that I have to be an awesome adventurer, too. There is so much talk about pushing for specialization, but it would seem that you cannot really level up mining effectively without also heavily relying on combat skills, which defeats the purpose of specializing!

    Just as an FYI, I GMed blacksmithing almost exclusively in Owl's Nest Mine. I mined hours on the weekends while I was doing other things (kill the wolves, mine all the nodes, go clean something while waiting for it all to respawn), so I KNOW how painful it is first hand. I earned my GM and didn't mind that it took months of dedication, but I do mind the tedium and bore of it all. I was only able to do it because I used it as a zone-out stress relief from work. But what I really wish is that there were some more varied mines for adventure level 30-50 where you don't have to be a super awesome fighter to have fun and get some ore.
     
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  2. Arlin

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    Because it's iron and copper and who cares?
     
  3. Solazur

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    Owls is iron and a bit o copper?


    Edit: 5x might be a bit much.... Owls Nest as it was the last time I was there, which was months ago.. was fine imo.. why nerf a noob zone?
     
  4. Drocis the Devious

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    Everyone thinks one move in advance here.
     
  5. Solazur

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    Thought is good :)
     
  6. Drocis the Devious

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    The economy is not a one move at a time game though.

    This is just one example. If you mine copper, you can sell it or trade it and get gold or silver. Your mining proficiency goes up, and you get gold or silver.
     
  7. Solazur

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    I'm curious... and this is a serious question not random snark.... how much time have you spent mining in Owls Nest? It really truly is a noob zone.
     
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  8. Drocis the Devious

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    Enough to know what it is and what it's not.

    Nodes are nodes, it doesn't really matter where they are on a map, just what's guarding them. Are you saying that there should be more reward for the low risk of Owl's Nest?
     
  9. Solazur

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  10. Drocis the Devious

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    Not saying we should. The OP (and others) have suggested we put more ore into Owls Nest while keeping it noob and low risk.

    What I'm saying is that if we were to do that why wouldn't players that could handle more risk just go there? That's the heart of the matter, that if you make areas high reward they have to be high risk. Otherwise the players will find out and camp those areas to death.
     
  11. Arlin

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    Because the XP is garbage and people don't need iron and copper in nearly the quantities they do silver and gold. You could fill Owl's Nest with a thousand nodes and no enemies, add producer decay, and it still wouldn't be worth my time to go there, because I can handle Spectral for iron, Etceter/Graff for copper and gold, and Elysium for silver and gold, and even with a few deaths my XP gain would be higher in any of those zones.
     
  12. Drocis the Devious

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    You're thinking about it from your perspective, not someone that is willing to sell all that free copper and iron.
     
  13. Arlin

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    Which will tank the price of copper and iron, making it appropriate for low level mining and letting higher level miners focus on higher tier materials. There's also the fact that lower tier nodes have lower chances of tin, nickel, and tungsten, which are necessary at higher levels and will pull higher level miners to t5 zones. So the net result of adding all that free ore is that the overpriced common materials will drop in value, miners below adventurer level 70 have a place to go, all the actual crafting bottlenecks stay the same, and high level miners continue to spend all of their time in Elysium mining silver and gold or in Spectral mining producer experience. That's far from fixing all the problems with mining/crafting, but it's better than what we have now.
     
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  14. Drocis the Devious

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    Is it better than what we have now? I don't know that it is. I guess my point would be "we need more ore!" is not really a good solution for anything. It's a far more complex problem than that. You've done a good job explaining some of the "what if's" that might occur by increasing ore in Owl's Nest. I don't see where that scenario is one that we should encourage though.
     
  15. Solazur

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    Or perhaps I don't see it as "free".. idk, I don't regard as free anything someone has to put their labor into. I think that's something that can't be overstated... mining is work, at least to me..

    I haven't found a mine that "gave" me ores yet :)
     
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  16. Trihugger

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    So my 2c here... I agree with the sentiment that the current crafting system is an abomination straight out of the 90's and needs to be COMPLETELY revamped. Crafting NEEDS a skill based component to it. @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos mentioned something like random events.... I'm honestly doing my best to politely say that's a bad method and another perfect example of "oh I missed that one event, I can't craft **** that's comparable so I guess my stuff is trash and I'm SoL". I can't think of a single positive reason to limit crafting by adding time of day restrictions or bonuses. We don't need more limits. There's nothing skill based about that, that's completely luck based. That's EXACTLY what we have now. All that does is add pure frustration.

    Vanguard, Final Fantasy 14, etc. all more modern games (with problems, granted) all had vastly deep crafting systems. I played and excelled at the crafting game in FF14 so let me explain a bit how it worked:

    Crafting/Gathering were approached almost exactly as you would for adventuring: You needed gear to go along with your level (in this game proficiency). Crafting/gathering gear had 3 stats on them and you can basically think of them as one that increased the success chance of the craft/gather, one that increased the exceptional chance of the craft/gather, and one that allowed you to use more abilities when using the gathering/crafting skills themselves in their 'mini-games' of sorts. A full set of gear naturally wasn't enough, you had to meld materia into it (our enchanting system except the materia broke, not the gear, when a failure happened) to make it more effective. Naturally being a crafter wasn't for the faint of heart, and you sure as hell couldn't just salvage your way to victory lol.

    I'll be brief with this description, but imagine that for hitting 40, 80, and GM'ing each of the crafting professions, you got some super sweet ability in addition to normal abilities that would be used in some sort of mini-game for the crafting. These super sweet abilities could be *cross-classed* and used outside of that particular craft. For instance, you could use the skill you got @ GM Blacksmith with your level 40 tailoring. This was the basis for FF14's abilities used while crafting. Someone with every crafting skill naturally crafted WAY better than someone with just one of them kind of deal.

    For the mini-game itself you had two separate goals to reach for crafting, gathering was a different beast. Your crafting skill affected how much *progress* you made when you used an ability that filled the progress bar and your control skill affected how much *quality* you got when using quality increasing skills. When the progress bar was filled, the craft completed. Depending on how much of the quality quota you managed to meet determined the % chance for a high-quality item, our rough equivalent of exceptional, with a full quality quota being 100% high quality. This is extremely brief, but you get the idea. If you want a more complete look you can easily youtube ff14 crafting.

    You could auto craft ingots/other menial items OR you could try to high-quality (HQ) craft them and have a higher starting chance to HQ the end product. The mini-game had some element of luck to it, but with enough gear/skill/know-how/cross class skills mentioned above you could pretty well negate the luck chance to an extent with most things and only the supremely highest tier of gear truly required a bit of luck to HQ craft even with the best of everything else.

    This is just an example of what *could* be. I liked this system a lot. It had great depth. You truly felt like a crafter/gatherer when you were out doing it.

    Let's be honest with ourselves though, nobody is currently crafting a damn thing in SOTA. We're clicking menus/praying to raptor jesus we fall on the correct side of the %'s. That's NOT crafting. That's, I HOPE, a stand-in until they could actually make a proper pass and add something with substance to it.
     
  17. Arlin

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    Do you have an actual reason why adding more ore to Owl's Nest is bad, or are you going to continue to simply assert that it is?
     
  18. Drocis the Devious

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    Wow, I've detailed my reasons a lot through this whole thread. I suggest you read my posts again.
     
  19. Arlin

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    The only argument I've seen from you is "no don't make it easier". I've explained why adding ore to low level mines doesn't benefit high level miners and you don't seem to have an actual response to that.
     
  20. Drocis the Devious

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    My response is that I completely disagree with your analysis, and I believe it would benefit high level players and negatively impact the economy. Now you have a choice to make, you can either disagree with that or you can continue to post that I didn't respond (which would be incorrect).
     
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