Minting Coins

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Poor game design, Dec 28, 2014.

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  1. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    Winfield is a great man and may indeed understand macro-economics, but nothing in that statement proves that he understands macro-economics.

    This is descending into "let me explain economics 101". Honestly, I think most people here understand enough economics. For some of us it is part of our day job. Limiting supply says nothing of demand, as you must know. Cryptocurrencies provide a very poignant illustration of this. Some of them have limited supply but 'zero' demand and hence a very low price (and more importantly non-appreciating price).




    All of this is supposition. We don't yet know the mechanics of minting coins nor how vendors (NPC or player owned) will accept them. What you are saying could be true if that's how this system is implemented. I'm waiting for more details before making the call.
     
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  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Well you see the problem is that at that point.. NPCs aren't even treating it as currency, but as any other crafted item with a fixed price. Meaning it's only useful through direct transactions.. May as well not be currency at all at that point.
     
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  3. Jatvardur

    Jatvardur Avatar

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    Do you think it is more likely that the vendors will hold Player Coins as an item for purchase (like e.g. cotton), rather than being accepted as money?

    (genuine question btw)
     
  4. Drocis the Devious

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    If you buy a sword from Elmo for 10k and the NPC vendor will only give you 5k for it. Are you likely to sell it to an NPC or another player that will give you 8k for it?

    If you have PLC's that you bought from Winfield for 10k and the NPC vendor will not give you ANYTHING for them. Are you likely to use them somewhere else? It depends on Pax Lair's ability to honor their gold coin economy. It depends on how other players value them. It depends on everything BUT how the NPC's value them.

    That's how a player economy works. For weapons, armor and other items, that's how SOTA already works. It remains to be seen how NPC's will treat player minted coins.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    No I think NPCs will treat custom coinage as being equal to standard coin. 1 gold = 1 gold.
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

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    Right, we disagree on that. And the devs have never said that. So we're back to where we were 3 hours ago.
     
  7. Bowen Bloodgood

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    No.. if I buy a sword for 10k I'm going to bloody well use it. If by any chance I bought 'PLC' I'd hold on to it and wait for the value to increase as a rare item and then sell them off to coin collectors. Why would I buy 10k worth of currency that I expect to spend elsewhere? I might as well just take my 10k and spend on what I ultimately wanted to get.

    Why would I try to buy custom coin to use at a vendor when I keep saying it's going to be treated like standard currency? I wouldn't be investing in currency.. I would be invested in potential rare items.
     
  8. Drocis the Devious

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    If the system works the way you think it does, you wouldn't. If the system works the way I think it does, you would (presumably, or else you don't understand basic economics).
     
  9. Jatvardur

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    That confused me.

    NPC vendors may not accept any player minted currencies, while player vendors can be told to accept whatever. I don't think we know enough yet.

    I know why people are saying that the second statement will be true, but I'm curious to know if it isn't going to be enforced to be true. Especially for player owned vendors.
     
  10. E n v y

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    It will either do that in which case it will accept all coins as payment. Possibly when someone sells items you might get PoT/Guild coins given to you randomly (depending if anyone has bought anything with them and if it is tracked behind the scenes).

    The only other way it could be done is if the vendor does not accept payment in PoT/Guild coins.....there would need to be vendors who specialise in currency exchange...... it could work, but as I mentioned in a previous post; I really don't believe the Dev team have the time to come up with algorithms to determine the value other multiple player currencies taking into consideration the demand as well as the supply including everything in circulation and how quickly it is being circulated. Don't get me wrong it would be really cool if it could be done.....but when we can't ride horses; I know where priorities should be.
     
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  11. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I'll not be one to comment on what others understand or do not.. but I can say what I understand.. is good game design, mechanics and player behavior. Which I will take over someone else's understanding of economics on this particular issue any day of the week. :)
     
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  12. Drocis the Devious

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    Personally I'd much rather hear from someone that majored in economics.
     
  13. CaptainJackSparrow

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    Captain Jack is glad that Bowen seems to have some sort of logic going on in here. If Captain Jack's single pimped out piece of eight is made from the same amount of gold as a single gold coin... It is going to be worth a single gold coin to the game.

    Some of you may want to play Ultimate Collector, but Captain Jack does not. Captain Jack knows nothing of economics, but he does know the first time Captain Jack logs into this game and has to go fetch Pax Lair coins to buy something or can't buy anything with gold because a group of money minting morons chucks out a wad of cash all at the same time will be the same day Captain Jack stops playing.

    But that isn't going to happen is it. They want people playing, not leaving, so Bowen is correct.
     
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  14. E n v y

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    You already have :p
     
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  15. Jatvardur

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    While I would not. ;)
     
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    So all those years of observing players, attending game development conferences, getting a game related BA degree, DMing a private server and everything else apparently doesn't account for much. :)

    Ok.. let's get someone who majored in economics to comment on that New York scenario I put forth earlier while we're at it. :) Not that an economics major needs to know anything about good game design. This isn't Shroud of the Economy.

    Edit: That's not meant to be negative about economic majors. I'm just being technical. :)
     
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  17. Drocis the Devious

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    I'm not an economist, but using this logic wouldn't both of these currencies be worth the same amount since they're both paper?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is the argument you guys are making when you say 1 gold = 1 gold.
     
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  18. Drocis the Devious

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    You seem happy to tell people about real life weapons whenever that subject comes up. Yet when economics comes up you don't want to hear from someone with that experience? Interesting.
     
  19. Jatvardur

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    I suspect the disagreement is on the belief of implementation, rather than a disagreement on how economies actually work.

    Bowen / Envy belief the exchange rates will always be fixed (correct as appropriate).

    Drocis believes that exchange rates will be floating.

    I'd hope to see the latter too, but I've yet to see enough details to know which is true.
     
  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Um.. no what I actually said was.. let's get someone.. and let's get them to comment and include the New York scenario since I was using that to compare what you were talking about with having so many potential currencies competing in a relatively confined space with a relatively small population.

    That means.. yes.. let's here from someone and see if they think that kind of scenario is feasible. I wasn't being sarcastic on that point.
     
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