More MMO, less single & multi player

Death-Knell: What we are talking about this whole time in this thread is that in the video he also said it will be what comes closest to an MMO and that we fear that it will not be close enough. I will not write up a summary here but recommend you reading the whole thread, because you might be accusing me of cherry picking quotes here, but it seems quite obvious that you either did not read the thread or chose to ignore what we are talking about.

 

also: on Kickstarter you said yourself that you never played UO (or any other Ultima), so how should you be able to judge if what we know till now about OPO will be close enough to UO?

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but please don't just assume stuff for us and at least try to understand where people in this thread are coming from.

 

I can see why people are concerned, but I remember times while mining in UO and not running into anyone for hours except a few thieves. I also remember going to the bank in Vesper and seeing maybe 15 people at times.

So "dozens" of people just might be enough to be exciting, and anything more than that really leads to lag.

Even when I was a member of a chaos guild I would run into maybe 5 or 6 order people in Britain between the bank and the inn, but there may have been 100 other people doing stuff I didn't care about. In fact sometimes it would get so laggy by the bank it would ruin the PvP. So think about that.

(Also keep in mind this example If you're in an Order guild I would think there would be a high probability the game would view all chaos people as "relevant" to your game play).

 

Actually Isaiah... That is REALLY REALLY good point! Nobody has put it quite like that yet, and that is a really GREAT way of looking at it. You're completely right, if they handle the OPO properly, the game could still be a LOT of fun...

That still means you won't hear from friends getting ganked on the other side of the map, or maybe even then it will still be possible, who knows...

Thank you for pointing out that very unique point of view my friend =D

 

We'll see what happens. I am still concerned with it running on player PCs. Also I wonder how the game will choose which other players you'll see in the OPO version. I want to run into other people I have not met before but also into people I have met before without having added them to some friend list. But again, we'll see. Maybe there will be a more detailed update about it sometime.

 

Yeah, I wish their next update could be about the multiplayer modes.

 

There is a vocal UO presence, but there are a lot of people that want Ultima and Ultima was something before UO. I think the current proposal is great. I have hated every MMO I played; even UO turned me off not seeing a value in a monthly fee.

I have liked smaller communities like NWN for multiplayer and still mostly play single player. Much of that is my life where having an Autistic son means I may not be able to play fully online.

 

I would never want UO2 INSTEAD of a new Ultima. A new single player Ultima would always win for me. But that's not the question anyway. It's only about if the OPO mode really feels like a MMO. That's all That we get a great story driven game is obvious anyway (yay ).

 

I think this discussion is ahead of its time. Once the game works, SPO, FPO and OPO work, I would be very very surprised if a "bigger" MMO mode would not be added later on. Each mode seems to build on the other, so it would be the next logical step.

I've played the "numbered" Ultimas, UO, Meridian 59, Everquest and basically all MMOs up until Star Wars: The Old Republic and WoW: Pandaria. So I know exactly that ALL of them feel like they are the same game, with a few updates here and there and a new skin. Kill that, fetch that, wait in line to kill Boss 234 for the 23rd time to maybe receive the brown stick of hiccup+3. UO really was different.

 

I really hope this will be the case, a mode that allows us to have this UO feeling again, open pvp, full loot, guard zones and the whole thing. So players that want to play like this (UO fel rule style) can choose this game settings and play with other like minded people.

 

I widely agree with the OP even so I loved the SP Ultimas long before I played UO for the first time and would love to see a successor in these reigns, I even more would prefer to see a successor to the original UO (without Trammel!!!!!).

Why, because there was and is no other MMO like UO until today. And it would be fantastic to have a better and newer UO-like-MMORPG. What happened to UO like Trammel and Elves and Dwarves and what not, killed it for me. Even though the original UO was not perfect in every aspect but it was something that can be build on! And with all the experience one like LB has this should not be a big deal, shouldn't it?

 

Yes, I think quite a few of us would REALLY REALLY like to see the OPO version of this game to be a complete "reboot" of UO, and I seriously doubt we will get that. That being said, I am still very much looking forward to this game, I can honestly say that I have never anticipated a game as much as I am SotA. And the more I read, and the more I think about the concepts presented for OPO, I am slowly starting to think that it will not be a complete bomb at giving us an MMO "UOish" type felel.

One of the examples I saw somebody use, and that I have been using ever since to pinpoint a specific example of why a full MMO would be better is: Getting that random ICQ from a buddy who is getting ganked in some far out remote area of the map, while you are on the Trinsic bank roof. Then having him make a gate to to Trinsic bank roof while you wait to hop through that gate, pop out on the other side and start kicking some newbie griefer ass!

I just didn't see how this scenario would ever be possible with the current model of OPO that has been presented, however when Isaiah pointed out that if you were in a Chaos guild and went into town to use the bank, the game would probably assume that all members of Order guilds would be relevant players to show you.

This leads me back to the example of the buddy getting ganked. If you are on the far east side of the map, and somebody from your friends list who is getting ganked on the complete opposite side of the map messages you asking for help. It would lead me to believe that when you "recall" halfway across the world to help your friend, it would automatically sync your maps to make sure he is visible to you.

I would then go a step further and assume that anybody who is currently attacking your friend would be someone the game deems to be "relevant" to you. With this particular scenario, the game could very well indeed be just like an MMO.

Unfortunately the game is quite a ways off, so we really will just have to wait and see

 

I don't think it's impossible that we get that, if just enough people voice their
opinion... R.G said that himself a few times already, what they have now is the basic foundation of the game but that things will change if enough players say don't do this or don't do that, but instead do this...

And with the general idea they have how this selective multi-player feature will work, it would be not so hard imho to integrate a new play mode, or a secondary option that lets you select how you want to play OPO... FFA PVP / PVE-RP and the game would then obviously match the right kind of players to play with you.


The only thing where I'm not really convinced is the OPO mode and how they describe it, that the game matches players you play with... What we all loved in UO was that we were one big community per shard, so you always met the same people over and over, new people joined, some people you never saw again.

But I fear that the OPO mode will not feel like this, simply because the number of players the game includes in one map will be too limited.

This is what R.G said a few times already now, we won't be able to have 100 players stand in the "brit castle" trying to kill Lord British... Or at the "brit bank" trying to sell their goods. So it won't be like that in the OPO mode...

And this is really sad, because that was exactly what made UO so great (combined with the freedom and danger).

So yeah, imho we should petition to Portalarium to make a game mode that allows us to play in true MMO fashion and UO style! Maybe by making the "MMO" play-mode option only available to paid subscribers, or whatever is possible.

But we UO fans should join forces and try to get them to add this feature

 

crachazz:

That is exactly what I had in mind when I first created this thread. It was basically a petition to give us full MMO features with this game. I definitely like the idea of having an additional "MMO" mode that you have to pay monthly to play, because as I have previously stated, I would be willing to pay DOUBLE what all other MMOs today charge if a new rebooted version of UO were to pop up

 

That makes two of us already ;o) (but I'm sure there will be quite a few more hehe)

 

Another thing I've been thinking about, and I made another post about it on the forums... In order for the OPO mode to feel ANYTHING like a real MMO, there needs to be incentive for the non-combatants to want to play there as well. Which is why I was proposing to add an extra level so to say, of craftable items. For example, a special type of Iron Ore that is just a little bit stronger than the iron you can mine in SPO or FPO modes. This way it gives the player an incentive to want to be out mining in OPO mode where he could possible get PK'd and robbed.

If a Crafting character decides to play his whole game pretty much in OPO mode. Selling his goods, conversing with other characters etc... But every time he needed to go out to mine more ore, he was just able to put the game into SPO or FPO mode and mine that ore without any risk, it would GREATLY take away a lot of the MMO "feel" from OPO mode. You would pretty much NEVER run into somebody performing any kind of rafting activity outside of town ever again.

However if those crafters had some kind of incentive to actually do their crafting in an area that makes them vulnerable, I think both sides would benefit. The PKs would have their chance to actually PK people, and the crafters would have a chance at getting some super special Ore to make exceptional weapons!

 

It doesn't matter if most of the time you "ignore" the majority of the people you see while running around in a MMO, you are ignoring them by your own choice.

If you are playing a MMO, you shouldn't be limited to who you can interact with and when. I want to the ability to run past and "ignore" a random Blacksmith selling goods today, but tomorrow I may decide to see what he actually has to sell. If a server is deciding for me who I want to see. I may not see that Blacksmith at all. And that takes away from the MMO aspect of the game.

I have no doubt the single player aspect of the game will have a rich story and will be amazing. But if you are going to include a MMO version into a game. You shouldn't restrict the online experience. Watching hundreds of people run around in a city during peak hours and freely interacting with all of those people at will, is what MAKES the MMO experience.

How can I freely interact with strangers and make new friends if the server is limiting who I see?

 

I would like a new-UO style game that is mainly online.

 

People have varying reasons for choosing either SP or MMO style games. Some like MMO's for the ability to play with their friends, others to play the "bully" and take advantage of weaker players and for many others, reasons in between.

Many players choose Roll Playing Games (RPG's) for just that reason, they like playing a roll outside of reality and will choose either a SP or MMO if it allows them to have fun playing these rolls. Many like doing this without the artificial interference of an intentional bully but with the occasional assistance of and to others.

Personally, I'm a true RPG fan and accept the benefits, risks and pitfalls that inherently come with RPG games. I will play either SP or MMO versions of RPG games but will shy away quickly from the MMO's if, by their design, they allow others to "have their way with the world" while stepping on my right to have a desirable time playing the role I choose to play.

From what I've read and seen in videos, Lord British recognizes these facts and is designing Shroud of the Avatar to cater to a variety of player preferences. This makes sense because it lends itself to a wider paying audience.

I believe the direction I understand Lord British to be going with both an Open World and Single Player scaled capability is the right thing to do and he should not make it just another SP or MMO. If he makes it strictly SP, he potentially loses some or all of the MMO folks and if he makes it an MMO he potentially loses SP and/or RPG fans.

 

"If you are playing a MMO, you shouldn?t be limited to who you can interact with and when. "

The system architecture RG has in mind for SotA does not lend itself to providing a full MMO environment, which is why he has chosen a MO rather than an MMO architecture. I think this is driven, partly, by the limits of what can be accomplished on an Kickstarter budget, but also partly on a desire on Garriott's part to limit the numbers involved so that he can concentrate on the story telling he has in mind.

As he said during the Reddit interview, there will be times, even in OPO, when the story demands that you undertake some tasks alone. This is a story driven game that features multiplayer interaction. It is not a multiplayer game that features a storyline.