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My displeasure about combat's related features in this game.

Discussion in 'Release 49 Feedback Forum' started by Hornpipe, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Chrystoph Reis

    Chrystoph Reis Avatar

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    In every other game this is considered resistance. Doesn't make you a magic user.
    Casting spells makes you a magic user.

    Just saying.
     
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  2. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    In our game you have to be able to cast spells to get resistance to magic. But the point I was trying to make is that by default even the players that don't want to be magic users really are.

    I'm saying that there should be a more clear way to draw the line between magic users and non-magic users.
     
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  3. Chrystoph Reis

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    Should be... but then the game would no longer be a classless game.
     
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  4. Poor game design

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    It's not a classless system now. We're all the single class of "avatar".
     
  5. Chrystoph Reis

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Mac2

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    Magic user, a person that uses magic, Non magic user, a person that does not use magic. Super simple, the words in context give you the definition. Having a wrench does not mean I use a wrench, picking it up and using it means I use it.
     
  7. Diab Blackbow

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    Sounds like duration increases only. I single stack my Healing Grace which is level 90 with 120 attunement and it heals for the same amount but definitely doesn't last 40 seconds. I see a lot of 26 point heals.
     
  8. Barugon

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    The amount also goes up a little. The big benefit to stacking is the duration.
     
  9. Hornpipe

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    You can use healing grace on top of soothing rain, elysian illumination and (Arkah remembered me about that) cocoon of night.

    With those four buffs at low level (40 or something), you can get like 5-15 health every 1.5 sec for 15 seconds with healing grace, 2-4 health every 2 seconds for 45 seconds with elysian illumination, 4-8 health every 2 seconds for 30 seconds with soothing rain and 2-8 health every 2 seconds for 20 seconds with cocoon of night. Just as a comparison, dragon stew grants you with 1,3 combat heal per sec and devotional, something like 1,5 combat heal per sec. Numbers are rough but almost exact. With low level buffs not charged, people just have to deal more than 12 damage per second (without charging or even counting damage reduction of the armor, the devotionals and two foods), in order to make your health decrease under its maximum. Add the death shield, some dodge and damage avoidance, eventually a shield for some and the problem becomes more obvious.

    I tested this. Keeping those buffs active is not so hard, even less with the 5 stack charging. You can still attack and you get one of the best defense of the game. As long as you get a good attunement, and high level heals, you can sustain relatively heavy damages rather easily.

    Some people say that you don't need this in order to survive in most situation. That's partially true. But that's a balance concern anyway, It gives a big advantage to those who spread their experience in every magic school because soft caps as they are make it easier to acquire 400 levels with 4 skills than 125 levels with one skill. So as long as it is possible to cumulate buffs with buffs, people will tend to use the most of those to get the most benefits possible. It's a simple question of arithmetic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  10. blaquerogue

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    I have to agree with Fondorlatos here, heres why
    there is no way to get your resistances up unless your casting spells in those trees, so even if NOW you use no magic, at some point YOU DID CAST SPELLS to get the resistances you have now. In essence you were a spell caster at one time.
     
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  11. blaquerogue

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    Basically with the way the game is set up you cannot progress in PVE or PVP without casting spells at some time or another. Some people like this system and others dont. Personally i would like to see a way to progress further without using spells, but there is no way from the start of the game to do that as far as i can tell, ive tried and tried again not to incorporate spells in my build and it just doesnt work from the start.
    granted later on i can turn off my spells and just play my pure class, since all the defenses are now well beyond 40, and at this time i dont need spells but facts are facts if you have spells in your build, compared to just a pure build you are much more formidable in combat whether PVP or PVE.
     
  12. Vallo Frostbane

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    It is the same like in Darkfall Online back in the days. One class basically where you got to level all the important schools and spells to be viable.
    People didn't like that a lot and it was changed in the reiteration of Darkfall, because over time everyone was quite similar and maybe only difference is the type of weapon equipped ;) Not what typical RPG gamers like imho.
     
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  13. blaquerogue

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    My advice for the RPG type player that likes classes, is to just jack up all your spells until about level 40 or 50 then start turning those spells off as you get to the defenses you want that rely on casting spells. At that point start moving towards your goal as a pure class. Its not ideal, but its a way to get there, and start playing how you want. You probably will get your butt handed to you in 1 vs 1 PVP since the other guy will have all his spells up and running, its very rare to see a PVP person not use any magic at all in this game.
    Sometimes there are PVP competitions with rules like "no spell casting" and the highest pvprs typically cannot hang in a competition like that since they rely on all the spells they use. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is, spells count alot in PVP generally.
    I have held competitions just like that, and ive watched tables turn dramatically.
    If you want to indulge in PVP with a pure build then do PVP with your friends that are not pure build, so youll have a team of people that do use thier spells and you can be pure and still have a chance to live based on the numbers in your group fighting together.
    I typically have many decks ready for any situation (do i like this? No!) but i have to do what i have to do, some decks are pure, some decks are specialized depending on the situation i put myself into.
     
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  14. Stundorn

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    Wait short question.

    You can fight ( not move) with cocoon?

    Last time i tried any Action, no matter what disrupts this HoT.

    Maybe a good combo with Spellbinder Stance and Torpor?
     
  15. Hornpipe

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    As long as you don't move, the cocoon doesn't break. You can attack, take hits, but you must stay still. So yes, with spells, it's pretty convenient as you receive some bonus when you don't move (aka Stillness) and yes, it's a good combo with Spellbinder Stance and Torpor.

    Test it if you have any doubt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  16. Stundorn

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    Will do, gonna be a cloth tank :p
     
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  17. Stundorn

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    So i tried, but isnt worth imo.
    Torpor isnt what i expected, but i use cocoon more again if i'm stationary fighting and put some xp into it (was very low, it's 50 now)
     
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  18. Numa

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    I'll try this myself and see whether it stacks properly with healing grace & soothing rain. Got the perfect scenario in mind :)
     
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  19. Hornpipe

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    Cocoon of night is not so interesting alone. Healing grace is a better heal. But as long as you use every heal together, you get more survavibility. It's noticable even at low level in the middle of a crowd of enemies. I tested that combo many months ago when I trained my magic spells for the first time.



    As an exemple, this video that I made, two months ago (I didn't use cocoon of night, only healing grace, rain and sun with death shield and damage avoidance). At that time, normaly, I was not able to fight more than two Marksmans/Siege Engineers as long as they needed something like ten hits to kill me, in the best case (for me).

    In that video, I've been able to stay in the middle of the crowd. If you look correctly, they had to mobilize 1 marksman, 1 high wizard, 2 engineers and some crappy archers for 20 seconds (0:42 > 1:02, probably more than 20 hits) to take a quarter of my life, and they did it because one of my main healing buff ended.

    If you had any doubt, maths never lie.
     
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  20. Hornpipe

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    If you are not convinced, there are also two other videos who show how important buffs are. The beginning of the first video also show how much time it takes before the fight :confused: hence "Buff of the Avatar".

    This first one is from @Veronique of Lowlands



    As you can see here, polearms along fireflies and healing grace with soothing rain play the role. Of course, that won't be helpful against the 842 crit hit of the dragon but as long as a skill become helpful with that, it will be helpful with anything in SotA.

    With PvP now , an old video with this naughty @Vallo Frostbane



    As you can see, there is not much you can do when all your attacks get entirely mitigated. For this fight, I didn't use any buff but speed, strength, dex and intelligence (speed buffs can be cumulated too :D).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018