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My observations while playing during release 11

Discussion in 'Release 11 Feedback' started by Zassik Dreadmort, Oct 26, 2014.

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  1. Zassik Dreadmort

    Zassik Dreadmort Avatar

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    My initial intent was to build a leather wearing, dual sword wielding, death magic/melee type. It worked to an extent but it wasn't very fluid. These are my observations while playing with that build and many others.

    Zones:
    They seem seem pretty small and unimaginative. It could just be the ones that I've seen but what I've seen wasn't very impressive. Overall they felt very constricted and didn't have a sense of awe/grandeur that I love from MMOs.

    The zone boundaries seem very artificial as opposed to being natural obstacles that you can't move through.

    Skills and Character Development:
    I tried to build a plate wearing Shadow Knight style character. Heavy melee and light death magic. With the current fizzle rate it's pretty much impossible to wear heavy armor and effectively get spells off.

    I would suggest modifying fizzle rates based on the strength of the spell. First tier is 1/4 fizzle rate, second 1/2, third full, fourth double...something along those lines. That way heavy plate wearers can cast the lower tier skills somewhat reliably but the more potent spells are just not reliable at all.

    Dual wield needs help. The off hand needs to auto-attack at least occasionally. Using your off hand weapon as a way to build defense with passive abilities and not incur the horrible fizzle rate associated with a shield kind of kills dual wielding for me.

    I'd really like to see an in combat focus regen skill. A bard style regen over time or a necromancer style focus drain would be a good addition to combat in my mind.

    Pets:
    Pet AI is really bad. I would summon a pet and it would just stand there. I would right click the mob and tell it to attack and it would sometimes attack, sometimes stand there. It's to hit or miss if it'll even do anything to rely on pulling a pet.

    I would really prefer an option to keep a pet up all of the time! Maybe it would lock out a card in your deck, maybe two. The current pet summoning over and over is really clunky and makes combat seem unwieldy.

    There needs to be a pet window in the AI that allows you to better control your pet. They current system of right clicking to make it attack makes it difficult to target the proper mob. It would also make setting your pet to aggressive, defensive, etc. easier instead of trying to right click it in a fight.

    UI/Gameplay/Bugs:
    It would be nice if you could make multiple chat windows. I like to have a window open all the time with my combat spam in it while having a completely separate chat window/s.

    Separate/Side by Side comparisons of equipped gear vs. inspected gear would be better than the current inspection window. I found it hard to easily see the current inspection window.

    An option to automatically leave combat after fighting ends would be nice. If there is one I missed it.

    The rate at which equipment degrades seems excessive. I would suggest more damage to equipment being applied when you die and less through normal usage.

    Standing around and stealing weapons to get easy cash is not good gameplay. I'm sure that will go away but I wanted to mention it while I was thinking about it.

    Dragging weapons from the world to your character equips the first two and unequips what you're currently using.

    When mobs end their predetermined path they leash and run back to their starting point. During this time they're immune to attacks. I'd like to see this immunity removed as it's very immersion breaking and doesn't really prevent any kind of unintended actions that I can see.


    Sorry about the wall of text but I just wanted to get some of my thoughts out there.

    -Zassik
     
  2. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    The game is currently designed for people wearing full plate mail and using no magic (other than healing). That's how you'll have the most fun stomping through dungeons.

    Until this build, I also found the dungeons to be very small, but with the recent additions there's a lot more variety. I regret not going back to mess around with Vertas Pass in a group (I suspect this will prove more fun than it did in R10).

    Ravensmore was amazing! If you haven't gone there in a while like me, you should be surprised at the fun you have. Again, wear full plate and tank up (I was level 35 when I went).

    The Obsidian Keep was really well done. Solace Bridge was also very nice. But these are small, and it wasn't until last night that I found a HUGE dungeon in the sewers of Owl's Head. Again, FULL PLATE! This is frankly the best dungeon in the game that I've seen so far. It's very impressive.

    It doesn't seem that way. It is that way. It's a video game. Welcome to instanced scenes. The benefit for the SMALL development team is that they can scale resources to build more of those over time as opposed to trying to build a world that is interconnected and more immerssive using up their entire budget on what would amount to a dead world where you can run for hours and see nothing of interest. Darkfall did a great job of creating that and it took them about 10 years to do it too.

    As it should be. There are ways to get "close" to that build, but you have to sacrifice some things to do it. All of the skill trees are not fleshed out yet too, and the combat system is not balanced at all...so you're pretty much in the same boat as everyone else. I can't play a pure mage right now either.

    Everyone wants to be a hybrid without the sacrifice. That's the problem. I don't know if you've ever heard of Lord Soth, he was a Death Knight in the DragonLance novels. What made him really cool was that there was only one of him. He didn't play cards with his other Death Knight buddies. He didn't spend his free time building a Death Knight community center. He was the only one. And the reason he was the only one was because he did something really horrible that caused him to be cursed (part of that curse also gave him all the cool powers he had, like Death Magic), but the point is that he wouldn't really be that special anymore if he lived on Death Knight planet where everyone had the same powers that he did.

    Which is why when people start talking about the reduction of fizzle rates (or using magic without reagents) I have to ask the question, where do you draw the line? Is nothing supposed to require sacrifice in this game?

    Agreed. Dual wielding was poorly designed. You can't make a secondary attack that people are going to use if it takes away from your ability to use your primary attack. NOT IN THIS SYSTEM OF DPS SHOOT OUT. Now if we had a combat system where the entire thing wasn't based on DPS vs. Cool Downs, yes then we could have an off hand attack that could be used in place of a primary attack. But unfortunately we don't have a base system like that.

    Good idea. But how can you justify using focus to get back focus faster? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Stealing it from another source makes sense though.

    I totally agree.

    Good post.
     
  3. Zassik Dreadmort

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    Additional Gameplay Suggestions:

    It would be nice to be able to loot all corpses in an area. Currently looting feels pretty clunky. Adding in an option to loot all corpses and a "Loot All" key while in the loot window would make it feel more streamlined.

    An option to keep a buff or pet up all the time until dispelled would be nice. Similar to my suggestion above, if you wanted to lock a buff it could basically make several of your cards permanent slugs until the spell is turned off or dispelled by a mob.

    I hope the final combat system feels better than what we have now. I'm hopeful there will be more mechanics added in to make it feel more smooth. Right now I feel like I'm playing some kind of strange matching game and just clicking to do as much damage as I can.
     
  4. majoria70

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    lol well I had junk armor on. I made some chainmail and boots and the rest was cloth and I was doing great with my tactics healthy, shield deflect and, stun and knock down power, and burning firearrows. I know it is strange but just part of how we have to do things right now. I don't mind playing a hybrid for now. I play a hybrid if I like the way it feels in other games, mostly love warrior stuff tho. I do love giving the creatures the burn right now so I can bludgeon them
     
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  5. hackerssuck

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    All good points, but these are the two that really bug me. I was excited to finally find some of that green plant... *brain fart* that let me finally summon a skeleton pet, only to watch his health rapidly tick away. I don't care for this design at all. I think your idea of locking a slot or two is a good trade-off. I won't be running a pet if the current design is what goes live.
     
  6. hackerssuck

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    People like hybrids, and they usually have a penalty. In Everquest (original), the penalty was brutal, but gradually went away over time as the game was dumbed down some. But getting back to the point, there are ways to build a penalty into allowing someone to play a hybrid that is actually fun to play. Fizzling like 75% of the time is not fun. Perhaps a hybrid build would use more focus when magic is used. Perhaps a hybrid takes a penalty to experience. 30%? 50%? Then again, there are some hardcore people out there who would have no issue with a big experience penalty. The point is that there could be trade-offs without totally destroying the fun, or making the hybrid idea a no-go. The trick is finding the proper balance, but yeah, I really wanted to play a "paladin" type character. Heavy armor, sword and board, some light healing, but it was just not feasible. So now everyone is currently forced to run a heavy tank with maybe a little death magic for the life tap skill (whatever the name is).

    The idea of being a light armor caster, a medium armor ranged/dual wield, or a heavy armor tank is not really all that appealing to me. I want something that gives me utility in combat even if I have to pay a price for that utility.

    If only one person could be a "shadow knight" in this game, it would pretty much suck.
     
  7. Drocis the Devious

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    Right, but if everyone can be a hybrid master of everything then the game will equally suck.

    The middle ground does not have room for tank mages. That's what I was responding to. Of course 75% fizzle isn't fun. So don't wear full plate, invest your skill points into things that make chainmail and perhaps even a mixture of chain and leather and plate to reduce that fizzle rate. But please don't act like a full plate wearing death mage should not have a huge fizzle rate.

    I'll tell you what's not in the game yet is backfire, and I assume the backfire rate on full plate is going to be crazy high. I can't wait for that. I hope it's also 75%.
     
  8. Zassik Dreadmort

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    If you look at the armor you can see where they were going. Light armor with cloth and leather. Cloth being a pure caster and leather being more dps or perhaps a healer build. Then heavy armor with chain and plate. Plate being the pure tank option and to me it looks like chain is supposed to be your hybrid armored caster with paladin, shadow knight, sturdier healer type builds but the problem now is if you want to cast effectively you're stuck wearing leather as chain is far less forgiving to casters and hardly provides any more armor than leather.

    I ended up going leather and dumping tons of points into the earth passive abilities that add to your defense. My final build was a bludgeon/life/death build in leather. In order to live I ended up maxing the passives in light armor and earth. It worked but only because I maxed out those passives.
     
  9. hackerssuck

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    I didn't say I should be a hybrid master of everything either. I just like paladin type characters. Your idea is what I may have to do to make it work. I don't know yet. The game isn't live, so things change. But basically I believe you also said that everyone should wear full plate and bull dozing dungeons (I quote "The game is currently designed for people wearing full plate mail and using no magic (other than healing). That's how you'll have the most fun stomping through dungeons."). That's pretty boring too, since trying to do even light healing with full plate is a crap shoot with mostly craps being the result. Shroud of the Plate Tank. Catchy! Don't even bother putting magic in the game, or light armor or medium armor or bows, or or or.. Yeah just plate and a few types of weapons so it can be Shroud of the Plate Tank...
     
  10. Drocis the Devious

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    How could you imagine plate armor being the hybrid caster when it has a 75% fizzle rate? I don't think that's where they're going at all. I think they're leaving the possibility open but clearly saying that if you want to be a tank mage, you're going to be more tank than mage if you're wearing plate. Which I think is the correct way to design this.
     
  11. Zassik Dreadmort

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    Basically right now if you want to cast just wear full leather. It hardly fizzles and provides quite a bit more protection than cloth. If you want to swing a weapon then wear full plate.
     
  12. Zassik Dreadmort

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    For sure if you're in heavy armor then you're mostly melee with a few spells thrown in. That's what we're talking about. Right now though if you're in heavy armor you're mostly standing there fizzling spells. I don't think anyone wants a plate wearing mage.

    Now a plate wearing anti Mage that knows a few defensive spells and crushes things with a giant hammer would be fun but that would be a hybrid character like we're talking about playing.

    We're talking traditional MMO style hybrid classes not I'm in full plate with a sword and shield and can cast every spell in the game.
     
  13. Drocis the Devious

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    None of the combat skills fizzle. None of them. A plate wearing player can cast as many of those as he or she wants. Furthermore, they can train in resistance active spells that lower their risk to schools of magic (and now that I think of it...this is worth another post entirely, taking those spells should add fizzle).
     
  14. Zassik Dreadmort

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    I'm not sure you're getting what we're talking about. If you ever played D&D then you know that there are hybrid casters in that game. There's Paladins, Rangers, Clerics, Bards and many more depending on what style of campaign you play in.

    So lets look at Lord Soth. He was a fallen Knight of Something (the Rose I think). If you played the D&D Dragonlance campaigns then you the three different orders that Lord Soth came from were all basically Paladins and had access to spells later in levels.

    No one is saying they should be able to play as Lord Soth. We're saying people should be able to play as one of the order that he belonged to before he became some kind of Lich/Knight combo thing.

    It's been forever since I read the Dragonlance novels or played D&D so some of the names may be wrong but you get the point.

    I just don't understand where the hate for a mostly melee character with some spells comes from. All adding spells does is add a different feel to the character. It actually makes you less effective compared to a straight melee build.
     
  15. Malchor1

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    I've been trying to use a pure mage build and have made several concessions in doing so...i know i will likely get flattened by a swinging hammer. I know i will not be armoured up to take as much damage and i know i will require reagents and that they are way too expensive (and feel that they should be necessary to cast spells period)...given these concessions, spells should be much more menacing and damage dealing. It seems like alot has been weakened due to complaints in the PvP combat. Rooting and stun spells should last more than 3 seconds. That simply gives you enough time to run a away...and not even that far. Pets deteriorate far too fast and the damage discrepency between magic and melee combat is ridiculous. Hopefully more balancing is on the to do list
     
  16. hackerssuck

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    Sadly, PvP whines tend to make PvE... less fun. You'd think they could somehow balance it for both, but the path of least resistance is to just nerf the crap out of something so it is not OP in PvP, but it totally guts it for PvE.
     
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  17. Zassik Dreadmort

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    That's been my experience too. I hope it doesn't end up like that in SotA.
     
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