Navigation through New Britannia

Good responses Margard. Maybe we can get a discussion on 'Navigation through New Britannia' going again after all.

Just realized I never answered my own questions.

1. I agree that the hex based system has potential.

2. 2D or 3D - The overland maps underlying architecture will be hex based instances. I think the system is necessary and will work to our advantage in the long run. (Good points on the arches.)

3. Travel includes moongates but I think for the overland map to be of any use then we need to steer clear of instantaneous travel methods of other types. Maybe someone else has thoughts on this that could change my mind, I am not set in stone on this.

4. Not that I know of. Trying to keep it as much on topic as I can.

- 2D map topic mentioned above by Margard - This is all personal opinion and decisions have already been made on this so I hope to not reopen the debate once more but I'd have to disagree with this one. Although it may have had some potential, I personally couldn't relate to it. I found the graphics too unrealistic and therefore my sense of continuity or immersion was broken whenever I opened the 2D map. The flat vertical surfaces reminded me of stick puppets. I don't doubt that they could have improved it but to what extent? I am sure however there are some who agree with you.

 

1. I didn't like seeing the hexes, but the map itself is growing on me, and as I have mentioned reminds me of old school games. A nice feeling. It also has a hint of Monty Python, which is always a bonus!
2. I don't know that it needs to be 'enhanced'. I don't care if it's 3d or not, I have an imagination and don't need even the map to be spoon fed to me.
3. I would like a combo of the gates plus foot travel, but I am a glutton for punishment. However, I won't declare any doom if we use the map to travel. Connecting all the ehexes is probably not going to work with the idea of 'replaceable hexes' and I like THAT idea far more than feeling like I'm trekking my toon more 'realistically'. I'll just be visiting a lot of random hexes, I don't care how.

 

"Evolution of World Maps"....
why should New Britannia's world map evolve any differently?
$4,000,000.00 doesn't buy CIA satellite technology
Even Christopher Columbus's first voyage would cost at least $500,000.00 USD at today's prices not including minimum wage hikes for it's sailors
As a matter of fact, I'm very surprised that half the Portalarium staff doesn't have to camp out of LB's Lake Austin's front yard with such a low budget to create such a great gaming world that they have accomplished thus far !

Mishri Said;
I'd also like to give the dual scale map system 2 different names. The world adventure and Scene Adventure = overworld and hex. The emphasis should be that we are still adventuring, still exploring and finding new things and encounters. Maybe someone else can come up with different terms that sound appealing. If there is anything consumers like it's good buzz words.
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I believe that what Mishri said has great relevance here in some maybe not too obvious ways...
I think they've done a great job so far. Yet I also believe that our map needs more proper description, as it is a work in progress, yet held to higher standards than it's current age in evolutionary age reflects.
But I'm unsure what that name should be
~Time Lord~

 

I'm firmly opposed instantaneous travel simply because it goes against the game design.

 

If you're talking about "magic recall" I totally agree with you.

As long as there are hex portals, and a way to tell "where" they lead (time clock, moon clock, mouse hover) and they are strategically spaced throughout the game, there is no need for recall...

 

I'm primarily speaking about Skyrim like map feature

I'm ok with moon rifts / unique and rare ... not hex portals (that every hex has them) ... primarily because a huge part of the design involves us travelling - like the contraband quests that we will have in one form or another

 

Since I've never played "Skyrim" I can't picture it, sorry. I played UO from Sept 1997 to 13 yrs later, then I quit, and went to WoW (and NOT because of Trammel). I am a crafter, and I was getting no where in UO, and there was alot of "slamming" going on in the UO community of WoW. I found it all to be false, WoW is an amazing 3D world, very simple to play. I did try EQ for the trial period, then gave it away. Now, I'm here in SotA hoping for a "hail marry" for redemption of Ultima. The New Britannia...

I didn't mean that each hex needed a portal, but strategic hexes across the overland map would have portals (as in the demo). NO magic recall, horseback riding Yes. Wagons, Yes. Foot traffic, Yes, but no PvP encounters unless I chose to go into that hex, and as long as I can see that the hex is PvP, I can avoid it. Sorry to any PvPers out there, but I don't want anything to do with your playstyle.

I don't think there should be portals in cities/towns, but go outside and it's fine. The contraband quest can negate the use of portals. And open you up to that kind of interaction on the overland map, pin a target to your back.

All and all, I agree with SLs goals and can't wait to see them materialize...

 

I'm not categorically opposed to it but I do think it can help and can also help to let you gameplay be more smooth. I think most people expect at least some of it so already so... I'm just not cool with travel to be forced when there is no other purpose to it.

- quick travel to certain areas after unlocking them by using transportation (like horses or boats)
- rare magic item to teleport youi
- recall spell/scrolls

 

The system for fast travel in EQ used to be really good until they started making instantaneous travel ubiquitous.

Only certain spell casting classes had the ability to port people between various portals scattered about the world. You'd get these locations unlocked as new spells when you leveled up.

Certain classes had the ability to bind themselves and others so that they'd appear in the same spot you were bound after death. It was usually the first thing you'd do after traveling a long distance.

This system encouraged players to rely on each other and introduced a lot of social interaction.

WoW also had a nice system in the early days with the wyvern & gryphon taxis giving you an aerial tour, but it was a little too easy to get around because of it and that kind of thing wouldn't be an option for SotA obviously.

Moongates would be my preference for fast travel, but only limited to movement between major landmasses. I think travel via other means should be encouraged as a positive activity as well.

Traveling can be fun if the game has an interesting, vibrant, living & breathing world as well as encourages dynamic, emergent game play. If you never know what's going to happen or who is going to be there, even passing by the same stretch of road in the countryside for the 100th time can be fun.

I really think if everyone has the power of instantaneous travel all the time, the game suffers for it.

 

I'm sorry but I will never feel immersed in a world with a zoomed out version of the world for traveling... it feels like old school Zelda... not UO... I want to be able to walk every where (chase people in PVP... the zones feel to small and cause to much loading...). Zoomed out version only should exists in a single player game. Lord British needs to give up on making 1 game for 2 different experiences...

 

You realize that most of the reasons for the map are to accomodate the multi-player side right?

 

We are about 16 months into development with $4.5m pledged towards the game that they have been building. Core systems such as the selective multiplayer aspects or the dual map (which were there from the first day of Kickstarter) are not going to change. :3

 

It's never to late to fix something that is broken...

 

Never Say Never, Ever.

That being said, keep in mind that's how the old Ultima games were for the most part before ultima 7 (actually this is far more advanced than the old school ultimas). The point I'm trying to make is that we were able to play those games and feel very immersed. Perhaps people are just accustomed to using less imagination these days. That's a shame actually.

We disagree about the overland map. Although I do admit it does seem old fashioned, but I don't think this game could be made any other way without massively increasing the budget. Try it out anyway and see.

 

multi-player games being made today dont have loading screens (or very few, and they all try not to put up fake boundaries).... its time Lord British catches up on technology... with 4.5 million in backing... he needs to spend the money on a powerful engine that does more. Unity was great for making a mock up. But what do I know. Time will tell if this becomes popular trend in the MMO world. I just had to get this off my chest.

I bought the Explorer Package and plan to play this game as a single player game... but it will not be the MMO I play.... because the 3d map breaks immersion so bad.

 

For one, it's not "broken". It' simply a design decision. Having said that, nothing is set in stone but I'd be very surprised if they moved to a single scale world as that would require them to re-architect their entire server design. Not impossible, but likely improbable. If anything is going to change with this design, it'll likely be allowing more scene-to-scene travel.

 

While I disagree with this premise, it is NOT the argument you made before; which was that it was put in for the single player game. That is not the case.

They went with dual scale mainly because it let them update instances easier for the multi-player game. So if something significant happens in a hex, the next time you enter, voila, it is updated. Had the game been purely single player that wouldn't even matter. It also allows them to parse people into different instances of the same scene by friend list and to keep the population in a given instance at an acceptable level to avoid breaking the system.

These are all multi-player concerns.

To be honest, this doesn't sound like the game for you. The things you're complaining about are core systems that have been in place since day 1. You don't seem to like dual scale or selective multi-player both of which are immutable. I mean the game is subject to change, but some things were pretty well set in stone since the earliest days.

 

Yes... I know one thing that inspires me to make a change is someone walking into my place of work and insulting me.

 

For one, the dual scale map design and multiplayer instancing tech has nothing to do with Unity. The Unity engine actually supports scene streaming so that you could have an entirely single scale world. But again, that's not the design they went with. Their multiplayer tech doesn't allow for them to do single scale worlds unless they implemented phasing (like ESO does) and that's not a trivial task. Also, their budgets don't allow for content creation at that scale, so they're actually making use of the dual scale map design in other ways where it adds value vs. being a limitation. Other ways being dynamic scenes that can be swapped on the fly.

I'd say just hold off on any ultimatums or decisions not to play the game. Remember, the overland map of Novia only represents what's been said to be 10% of the entire world. And the map of the Hidden Vale that we've been allowed to see is only a small fraction of that too. The game will feel larger as more content is added, and especially more so when we're allowed to travel on the mainland.

 

If he had the same attitude, we wouldn't have half of the Ultima games that we have today. The whole theme of Ultima IV's actions/consequences only succeeded because he dared to be different and made it work. He is attempting to do the same again and that is why this is such a wild ride! If it works, it will be the first game to truly do it. I mean a game that offers single player offline, online, full multiplayer and MMO elements? It has to be very challenging to be a game that covers all of those bases. If anyone could pull it off, it would be this team lead by that guy!