Net Neutrality

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bubonic, May 24, 2017.

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  1. Bubonic

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    Please share important things, as well as non-important things.

    Important things like a free internet.

    net neu·tral·i·ty

    noun
    1. the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites.

    Comcast tries to censor pro-net neutrality website calling for investigation of fake FCC comments potentially funded by cable lobby

    How to comment on the FCC's proposal to revoke net neutrality
     
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  2. Bubonic

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  3. Merlota

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    Comcast issued a DMCA takedown notice. This is not a net neutrality issue. Net neutrality would be if comcast blocked or slowed thier customers from access to the website. They did no such thing.

    I cannot believe I'm defending comcast here but that headline is intentionally misleading.
     
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  4. 2112Starman

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    The internet has been dead as it were for over a decade. back in 91-00 it was an amazing collation of individuals and real groups of people collaborating together as one. Then the corporations moved in, bought it all up and now its just a massively corporation controlled personal privacy data mining conglomeration of poo. The only good use it has is to play community video games and access to work environments. "Net neutrality" is just another small heap of poo added to it.

    Twitter: data mine all your interests
    Facebook: Data mine everything about you
    Google/Apple: data mine everything you do, where you go (droid in pocket)...etc...
    Microsoft: Data mine everything you do on your computer (win10)
     
  5. Drocis the Devious

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    I strongly disagree with your assessment of net neutrality.

    I suggest that anyone that would like to learn more (in an entertaining way) go to youtube and search on "John Oliver net neutrality II" and watch the first video. I'd direct link it here but it does contain minor language and political commentary that is against the forum rules.
     
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  6. Bubonic

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    um.... of course it is. Comcast tried to shut down a website that was calling for investigation into fake comments on the FCC website for Net Neutrality that were allegedly posted by Comcast.
     
  7. Bubonic

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    The Verge article is a good explanation of what is going on.
     
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  8. Mugly Wumple

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    Right. It all went to hell when they created the .COM domain and Biff moved in. We warned you.
     
  9. 2112Starman

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    Elaborate on that. Why would you strongly disagree? I said net neutrality was just another pile of poo on the internet that is a larger pile of poo, I saw John Oliver's segments done live, does not change this. Going back to my post, now Comcast can force/extort Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft and apple (netflix) to force them to pay big bucks or be throttled.... which does not change the underlying fact that they are all just providing you "social media", win 10, "search engines" and the like to harvest your personal and private data (and sell it for GREAT profit which gives Google its 600 billion market cap value). I guess its just a unique thing of being in IT for 25 years. Yes, Net neutrality is bad but its only just part of a much larger issue with the internet as a whole and I get concerned when people get hooked into only the net neutrality debate since they dont have a deep understanding of IT and the internet. There is hopes that a true point to point based internet rises in the future. So yes, fight net neutrality now, but fight for a new internet later.


    This all reminds me of the NSA fight Google fought where their CEO kept sending us gmail emails about how they were fighting the NSA on our privacy. That was priceless. You see, at least NSA takes all our data and stores it for their own use. Google takes 10x that, every single thing you do and stores it and sells it to everyone and anyone who pays for it.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  10. 2112Starman

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    I agree with you there, I sat in my universities dungeon unix server and gophered around to other universities via command line too :)
     
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  11. Drocis the Devious

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    I disagreed because you appear to be saying that the internet is bad so making it more bad is not an issue. It's kind of like saying I don't like that sandwich because it has mustard on it, so why not just poor tons more mustard on it?

    I do agree with you that the internet has a lot of flaws many of which has to do with large corporations dominating every aspect of it. But that doesn't mean I want them to further dominate it in new and more horrific ways.
     
  12. Tahru

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    The reason for the change is money and quality of service. Charging for guaranteed QOS was initially proposed by Microsoft in the 90s. They believed it to be a new and very lucrative market creation opportunity.

    I think of it the same way as toll roads. They tax innocent people for services they were previously entitled to and around every toll road is the incentive not to upgrade alternative routes.

    Gotta love how politicians line there pockets.
     
  13. Merlota

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    Using copyright methods that have been around for nearly 20 years. Feel free to ***** about the DMCA as a separate issue, that has been using that to pull content off the internet since it was passed.

    Net neutrality is when comcast simply blocks access to the site. They have the power to do so for their customers and there is no legal requirement that they allow access to the entire internet. Net neutrality is when comcast blocks or slows access to netflix and hulu to make their in-house offering the better choice. It is when they charge hulu a fee to allow their traffic through and block the competition.

    Net neutrality is about keeping the internet from getting chopped into pieces that you have to pay for access like you have to pay for premium TV channels. Facebook at more than 0.5Mb is an extra $1/mo, Youtube another buck. Damn important issue but that example is not a correct one.
     
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  14. Bubonic

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    I think you're missing the point.

    It's a net neutrality issue because Comcast is trying to squash possible investigation into them trying to influence the Net Neutrality decision. They (allegedly) did this by posting fake comments on the FCC website using names and addresses of their customers without consent.

    I'm not saying that the censorship itself was an example of Net Neutrality.
     
  15. Greyfox

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    Citing John Oliver as a source for anything other than fake news, bad comedian, and political puppet is wrong. Net neutrality is extremely complicated and should be researched far more than watching a "comedian." John Oliver is extremely biased and against anything the current US Administration implements. I have other words for John Oliver, but will keep those to PMs.

    Regarding Net Neutrality:

    Net neutrality means there is minimal commercial incentive driving faster internet. Ultimately the relatively slow Internet speeds we suffer in the US is directly due to the lack of incentive to deliver faster internet based upon market demands. Notice how Gigabit Internet such as Google Fiber or FIOS have dramatically slowed. The market incentive doesn't exist for the telecom companies to expand and push faster pipes to everyone. Yes there is continued slow expansion of Gigabit Ethernet in the US. No this expansions is not occurring even remotely as fast is the expansion would occur if net neutrality didn't ruin the commercial incentives.

    Obama's FCC removed most of the incentive for telecoms to expand high speed Internet and turned the Internet into a "utility." If the free market were in place and net neutrality laws relaxed or removed as the current FCC chairman wishes to accomplish the Internet in the US would push telecoms to go full fiber including the "last mile." Eventually delivering fiber fast speeds to the major markets in the US.

    Most of the US telecom infrastructure is dated and not aging well. Some of the communication is still being done on copper cables decades old. Without the free market to drive innovation either the government has to spend enormous amounts tax payer money or the American public is stuck with slow Internet speeds.

    Hacks like John Oliver will deliver fake news saying how the government should control the Internet and its expansion. Well this system has given us a situation where the majority of people in the US have no choice on a broadband provider. They are usually with either AT&T (Verizon), Time Warner, or Comcast. There is no real market incentive to push innovation like Google Fiber nationwide.

    Removing the net neutrality rules will remove a lot of government control from the Internet and allow for commercial enterprise and entrepreneurship to take over, the AMERICAN WAY. If Comcast decides to slow your Netflix (they did previously) you wouldn't need the government to stop them, you would switch to Google Fiber or another competitor.

    To summarize. Internet in the US is shitty and slow BECAUSE OF NET NEUTRALITY.

    Research this very complicated issue for yourself.

    PS: I have FIOS Gigabit Ethernet. Its real and its FABULOUS! Remove net neutrality rules and maybe you too can experience the future of the Internet. Would also lower the cost substantially in time.

    PPS: John Oliver is a cuck (I couldn't resist)


    Good article I found, lots more available if you search:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/why-us-internet-services-stink-2016-1

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447854/fcc-open-internet-rules-make-internet-less-open
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  16. Bubonic

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    Well... :)

    I disagree with pretty much every word in your post.

    But hey, to each his own.
     
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  17. Vladamir Begemot

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    A couple of people are really missing the facts of events here, so let me Bullet point it.

    • Comcast appears to be making huge numbers of fake comments to the FCC saying "We hate net neutrality!" It's very obvious their bots got out of control.
    • Freedom fighters put up website to get to the bottom of the issue.
    • Comcast uses a TOTALLY DIFFERENT TOOL, the DMCA, to try to shut up the Freedom Fighters.
     
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  18. 2112Starman

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  19. Greyfox

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    Stop getting "facts" from comedians, especially the spawn of John Stewart. Educate yourselves with the power of the Internet. Ask yourselves why is my Internet so expensive and so slow? The Internet is too important and too complicated to treat the service similar to a government controlled UTILITY, think your electric, water, or natural gas utilities. Market innovation gained with competition and innovation will deliver the Internet of the future.

    I'd recommend getting educated on a subject as important as the future success of the country from someone other than John Oliver or an gaming Internet forum.


    More sources:

    Wired: https://www.wired.com/2014/06/net_neutrality_missing/

    Gizmodo: http://gizmodo.com/why-americas-internet-is-so-shitty-and-slow-1686173744

    Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...ryone-in-the-internet-slow-lane/#5ed138debece

    CNET: https://www.cnet.com/news/7-things-net-neutrality-wont-do/
     
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  20. 2112Starman

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    To the base of your argument... I didnt use John Oliver as a source and you just attacked me for it, made up your own argument and then claimed victory lol. Awesome... but typical.

    Sorry. Listen, its really this simple. A lot of big corporations, religions and wealthy people have paid a lot of money for decades to get people like you to think, vote and behave *COMPLETELY* against your own self interest (Im sure you aren't a billionaire) and they have done a fantastic job. Just one more robot spewing out the same brain washed rhetoric their whole life. John Oliver does an awesome job of pointing this out every single night and in an extremely funny way and he is clearly doing a great job to get this reaction about him by you on a random internet post. So, 'nuff said, the fact that you are insulting the education of people (with uneducated rhetoric of your own pointing to an extreme right wing site as your source) you dont know on an internet thread says all that needs to be said about your argument...
     
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