New Forum Subsection - ''The Scrapyard''

Hello everyone, I wanted to express my thoughts on a new section for derailed threads.

As we all know, sometimes our threads just turn into a relativistic food-fight.

Often there are threads which are posted around the time the moderators go to sleep, and by the time they wake up, the threads are 9 pages long of back and forth, off topic, derailing posts, half of which need to be moderated, and then given a reason for why... so the moderators have no choice but to delete the entire thread to save time.

We have simply outgrown the functionality of the current moderation tools.

What I am suggesting is a new section for derailed threads, and the ability to restrict forum access to that section for repeat offenders of the code of conduct. Derailers, flamebaiters, personal attackers etc.

Personally I believe that every single person who has ever been upset because their thread was deleted would have been much happier if it was simply moved, so that it could at least still be discussed.

I know the easiest solution would be to simply ban or temp ban the offenders, but I can see why moderators do not want to do this, because at least some of them were initially very big fans of the developers.

I hope we will finally see this idea come to light, as it has worked wonders for various other communities!

Good luck and well wishes this Thanksgiving for those who are celebrating!

 

They are moved not deleted as it is. The case does not change. The thread is done and not more comments can be made.

 

That's exactly the reason we need this. Feedback is being deleted because moderators are failing to enforce rules intended to prevent derailments, such as no flamebaiting, or no personal attacks.

Why, just yesterday, a thread which was based around a personal attack was deleted. Today, a feedback thread was deleted. So apparently, the punishment for violating the rules is exactly the same as the outcome for the victims, because the rule violator had no other action taken against them.

Until moderators are willing to enforce their rules, a secondary method for protecting feedback from deletion is required. Which is this.

Derailed threads would be sent to the 'scrapyard' where trolls and white knights can continue their epic battles. The original posters won't have their feelings hurt, as they can continue to post and reply regarding their issue. If having their thread moved instead of deleted isn't good enough, then it only proves they were posting for the attention, and not the betterment of the game.

 

So basically the mods will have to move the thread then spend the time to clean it up so the multitude of forum rule violations are not sitting there glaring at everyone. With no hopes to reply. Or people will start a new thread to repeat the reasons for relocation. (also, threads are not deleted in the first place, they are still there, they are moved.)

 

It takes just as much time for moderators to move the thread to a new section, as opposed to wherever they move them to now.

Where you're mistaken is to assume that those threads will need to be cleaned up as much as they would if they had not been sent to the scrapyard.

Once the thread is moved to the scrapyard, there is no need to delete derailing posts, as the thread has already been officially declared as derailed. Personal attacks will still need to be removed, of course, and the users doing such things should definitely be at least temp banned, which they currently are not but should be even without the scrapyard.

However, if people who are personally attacking others are restricted to the scrapyard once their temp ban ends, they will be losing their platform for attacking innocent or uninvolved users that will likely not be posting in that section. Notifications for replies or liked content coming from the scrapyard could also be turned off.

Also, I should add that for most forums, sections like this that exist commonly for rants and flames are not visible to guests. Therefore the need to clean up threads that find themselves in the scrapyard need even less cleanup.

 

Clearly you have never been a forum mod. Thread cleaning is a must. Some things don't need to keep snow balling down hill. Some people get very vulgar. Some things take things to a way too personal level.

At some point it's better to just remove the thread and permit the OP to start a new one.

 

Those pesky germans and their feedback... In Deutschland kann man 'Gott sei dank' noch sagen was man denkt, auch wenn einige das Gegenteil behaupten

 

It's a common misconception that SotA suffers from 'too much moderation' The fact is there is simply not enough moderation happening.

Users are increasingly being put out by needing to report content by repeat offenders, and moderators are being harassed by users who wrongfully call them 'Fascists' for being a small team and not having time to handle each situation appropriately.

Right now, if you remove rule violators(which are practically begging for it), they will just blame 'fascism.'

Adding this new tool for moderators eliminates the silencing of opinion by deleting threads not violating specific rules, and thus the false impression of fascism or dictatorship.

@Ristra Believe me, I'm well aware of what happens in these types of sections as I was previously a forum moderator. This section is much different than what you are thinking, as it is only for derailed posts to be added to, and not new ones to be made. I'm sure you can see the merits of my suggestion, and I find it disappointing that you are unwilling to be more constructive by giving ideas that might make you see it working out better.

 

If only the current system was broken. Some would like a little communication as to why their thread/post was deleted but keeping the thread/post visible is counter productive to forum moderation.

If a full thread needs to be removed it's best to contact the persons involved. Not leave something looming in untouchable but readable location. It only baits people to start a new thread and continue.

 

As was pointed out earlier.. threads are not deleted. They are simply moved where we can't see them. The devs can still see them. So then I would ask.. who exactly is the feedback for? the community who have no direct power to act on feedback except to agree or disagree? or the devs who can take feedback and effect real changes to the game?

 

Yup, this point keeps being made for some reason. Might as well be deleted from a users perspective. Imagine posting something right before bed, and by the time you wake up its gone? You have no idea what the community feedback on your thread was like, with no opportunity to repost. You would simply never know about it.

The idea of the scrapyard came to mind when recently, a user who had their feelings hurt because their thread was deleted threatened to repost it 3-5 times per day because he didn't get a reason why it was deleted, even after admitting he knew that it would be deleted and why it would be right in the OP. So we really need not be worried that people will be encouraged to repost* content by the scrapyard, because we're already there with the current system.

The current system might be great, if Shroud had the resources to make it work, which I don't believe is the case.

Fact is, moderators have gone way out of their way already to keep posters and trolls satisfied, and in the end they still got deemed as fascists.

I can see the Scrapyard working out well for many reasons. Currently, if a thread is deleted, nobody can see where they got derailed and why they had to be removed. Could this be the underlying issue that has been causing re-occurrences?

So instead of leaving it up to moderators to tell us why threads were deleted, we'll be able to see for ourselves, and maybe it won't keep happening.

 

The odds of a thread being moved without replies from the OP...

eh, the points have been made. You want a locked thread to stay visible for eternity. In contrast we have locked threads all the time and only the completely rare case is fully removed.

 

I really can't figure out why you think this, even though I've repeatedly said that the threads that are moved will not be locked.

 

Oh, I must have misread. Did you mean to say that people can keep posting? They have been asked repeatedly for a mod free forum section. That's been a no go.

 

It keeps being pointed because you keep saying it IS deleted. Which is misleading. It has been archived and the devs whom feedback is normally directed at can still see that feedback. You make it sound like it's lost. It is not.

Also, if the feedback is for the devs.. what does it matter what the community response is? This should not be a popularity contest and rules are in place for a reason. And given those rules it's usually the case that the community response is what got the thread archived or locked in the first place.

 

All threads are replied to if they are removed. All moderation actions as well are replied to for followup concerns that you may have.

While the idea of a separate bin for derailed threads is interesting, it unfortunately won't work. Some threads simply need to be locked or deleted. To prevent good OP comments from being entirely derailed, we encourage OPs to repost in some cases, while in others we will moderate the derailers and remove posts to prevent a thread from being locked.

We will be moderating more of these problem posters moving forward, to prevent entire threads from being locked.

 

Threads "deleted" or "moved" or "archived" in this manner will appear the same to the regular user. While we would prefer everyone use "hidden" instead, we understand what is meant by "deleted".

 

Going into this I honestly did not know that these posts were not actually deleted, but archived. Of course, not every post is intended for developers only.

I think users will be equally satisfied by having action taken against repeat rule violators, however, I was hoping for a scenario where they would be unable to claim 'fascism' as the reason behind it that also simplified the moderation process. I also believe that it is better when users can be spared the banhammer.

I will continue to ponder on solutions that ultimately rely on new sections being added.

 

Make sure you think about the human condition. How will people reaction under the new method. The least common denominator applies.

 

Noted. Hidden is a better description.