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New Player Feedback - Legitimate

Discussion in 'Release 52 Feedback Forum' started by Caveloot.com Owner, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. Punkte

    Punkte Avatar

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    @Raian_Player of Games, Portalarium is a BUSINESS. Without money, there is no Business. So I'm sure they just don't care about numbers and profit, but they also need money and profit more than anything. Because without money and profit, there's no additional episodes, no expansions, no paying developers, and no game.

    So yes, I EXPECT this to be a 100k+ players game, because if its not, then this game will be dead very quickly...

    I am a Full-Stack .Net Developer, and I have worked with Unity, and I have also been running a freeshard for Ultima Online for years.
    I'm not saying I'm better than these guys, but I can at least understand whats going on, as well as I can understand that this is a business above everything else. Without money, there is no game.

    Lets also put it this way.
    Say we go that there's 20 developers making an average of 50k. I'm not sure how much each espisode will be every year, but say it $30. The game would have to sell 33k copies of each episode just to break even every year with paying devs. Then there's advertising, publishing, etc, etc. I'm sure they'll make some from their store and stuff, but start getting real. You need a mass of players.
     
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  2. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    Just going from backer numbers, we should be seeing THOUSANDS of people in the game, if everyone that backed it is playing it. Just some preliminary food for thought.

    To jump in on what you are saying, that's going to be hard to do when the following have happened/are happening:
    • A HUGE number of the current backers (roughly half of approximately 68k) have backed for all the episodes, not just this one. Several thousand more have backed for at least episodes 1-3.
    • A lot of current backers, for one reason or another, have given up on the game
    • New players are giving up for various reasons without even buying the game
    I would love to see the remaining episodes, but they are quickly tapping their market for this game. If they have the money for the production and hosting to take them through to the end and a while beyond, FANTASTIC! Otherwise, I don't see where the money will come from.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  3. majoria70

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    Well I am checking back to this thread which has gone a bit all over in the discussion. ;) So I'm in game and I think to myself hmmm let me go to my practice jumping place I created and remind myself about my feeling about jumping. I really don't feel it is unsmooth and I do feel it is interesting and challenging. And could it use tweaking yes I'm sure. Anyway I am in game and Majoria is the name. ;)
     
  4. Mykll

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    Well obviously we need movement keys to be hard coded, without the option to remap, to the YGHJ keys. Because that would be fresh and different. And anyone not reading the manual somewhere to know this will just be lazy. Calling it to be mapped to WASD or at the very least re-mappable are just wanting the game to be stagnant, the same as every other game out there. Because movement keys as well don't need to be familiar, right?
     
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  5. Hamsta

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    played DaoC for over a decade. Jump is fine compared to that. ;)
     
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  6. Spoon

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    Nah. You simply are misunderstand the dialog.

    People are not arguing against complexity in itself - they are arguing against unnecessary complexity with little or no payoff. If there was payoff then it wouldn't be an issue, if it was necessary then it wouldn't have been an issue.

    For instance I really like jumping puzzles and I like the complexity of the system we have in the game. However even I argue that the implementation of the key-use schematic is unnecessarily complex and could be made much simpler with the exact same feature set.

    Innovation and Ease of use are not standing against eachother - rather the opposite. Usually approaching an old paradigm and applying a new PoV, like Ease of use, can lead to great innovative steps.
    https://www.ted.com/talks/alan_iny_reigniting_creativity_in_business
    https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_johnson_where_good_ideas_come_from
    https://www.ted.com/talks/linda_hill_how_to_manage_for_collective_creativity



    For instance if you had been paying attention to what others were saying then what I listed as the finer details about solving jumping puzzles cannot be got from the manual. It has to be learnt from trial and error.

    Here was my list from upthread:
    So lets compare that to what the manual actually says.
    As can clearly be seen by us who has read the manual and has figured out some of the system by trial-and-error, most of the important stuff are not covered in the manual. For instance how to do a long high jump isn't mentioned at all, which is the most important jump of them all.

    Instead the manual actually misleads the user in a couple of the key aspects. I marked those in pink in the text above. So reading the manual right now is acutally less effective than just trying out what actually happens by spending time trial-and-error style.

    Since we have mostly been covering jumping lets cover that from the manual specifically:
    "Pressing the SPACEBAR key will cause your Avatar to jump."
    This is incorrect.
    Instead this highlights what gives the wrong impression of 'sticky-feet', the jump is on release, not on press.
    "The longer you hold down the SPACEBAR, the higher the Avatar will jump. "
    This is incorrect.
    There are only two jump heights, low/high. Holding below the threshold results in a low jump, holding above the threshold results in a high jump.
    So if you hold and release before the threshold your jump is just as high as not holding at all.
    While once you have reached the threshold any more holding is a waste.

    Thus I have a hard time understanding why you'd ever want to make the argument in this context that people should read the manual, since the manual in this specific instance of jumping doesn't help at all and instead misleads.

    So again, this dialog is not about what you think it is about.
    We are not arguing against complexity.
    We are not arguing against innovation.
    We are not arguing against finding good information in the manual.

    The argument is about how it 'feels' to play the game, and whether or not we can have the exact same complexity/innovation but which 'feels' better from an ease-of-use perspective. Preferably without having to read a manual that is sorely lacking correct information due to lack of attention (because of small team/budget).
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  7. SmokerKGB

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    Huh? They changed WASD? I hadn't noticed, maybe its because for the last 20 yrs I've been using the mouse to move around, huh, well since Ultima 7... I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread...

    If you and your friends want to stand still, while new things pass you by because your not willing to learn, maybe you should just step aside and let the rest of us by... It's kind of like someone doing 65 mph in the fast lane and refusing to take a slower lane, well because the limit is 65 mph doesn't mean you should hold anyone else back...
     
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  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    Jumping. It's lack of immediacy is a problem.

    If it is to stay charged, it needs to launch the jump the moment the button is pressed, and then "charge" by going higher the longer you hold it. Anything else will always feel laggy for new players, until they just give up and accept it.

    I'm used to it, I can work with it, it doesn't mean it feels crisp and wonderful like Mario or Quake. It's more like Tomb Raider, where you had to work around the interface.

    @Elwyn there is so much Toe Glue at the top of stairs in Ardoris! I've seen people stop dead on livestreams, I've done it all the time. In real life, if they put those blocks there, people walking down would die ALL THE TIME from tripping over them and faceplanting on the stairs.

    No more Ardoris toe glue! Safety first!
     
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  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    Hate the double tap to sprint function too.

    Why?

    Because for a split second you lose a tiny bit of forward momentum while the finger is off the key. And I'm trying to go faster. So it's the opposite of what I'm trying to do. I want to go faster, but here, for a split second, I'm going slower!

    Drives me nuts. I often just don't sprint because of it.
     
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  10. Feeyo

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    LOL - this remembers me of the old button cheat on nintendo entertainment system for the konami games.. (up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, a, b).
     
  11. majoria70

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    And also jump in this game isn't superior or even as good as in any game, it is just different and acceptible imo. It can be learned how to jump better with practice and since the devs were not going to add jumping at all at first we were very happy to get it. So many other things that I would wish to get attention like our fishing updates, agriculture updates, loot, treasure hunting etc.
     
  12. Feeyo

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    I agree on the "split second lose forward momentum", it does not feel right at all. Maybe a simple run button was better.
     
  13. Feeyo

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    Yeah for the jumping you get used to it and get more experienced with. Best way is to stand still, hold jump, release and then move the direction you want to jump to.
     
  14. Elwyn

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    By "toe glue" I specifically mean the thing that prevents you from making ANY jump at all when your toes are touching something and blocked while doing forward movement. Yes, I know many stairs suck in this game, and I have reported (and they fixed!) quite a few prefab stairs in Ardoris, but this isn't about that.

    This prevents me from repeatedly jumping up multiple "steps" in a fluid motion that are too high to walk over. The place I hate it the most is that big rock in the middle of Twins around where the Swashbucklers are that has an ore on top. I need to jump like three times to get up it, and I'm always blocked or having to stop moving after the first jump.

    I would hate jumping a lot less if you could jump when commanding forward movement while stopped by an obstacle.
     
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  15. Barugon

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    It's not just forward movement. If you're moving in any direction and you get stuck on some terrain feature then you can't jump. It's currently the most frustrating "feature" of this game for me.
     
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  16. Punkte

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    I'm not going to lie.
    I never even knew there was a sprint feature in this game and I've been messing around since like release 20 something every release for about an hour to check out the updates. Another one of those things.. Why is sprint double W? Every other game basically uses shift as a default iirc. Just do what other games do, stop trying to make things different.
     
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  17. eli

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    These kinds of things should be configurable and explained in the introduction quests.... I had no idea zone chat was disabled by default now... maybe one of those things 90% of us didn't notice because we were grandfathered.. that's terrible. Zone chat is the best.
     
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  18. Numa

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    Spoon, you should collect this and other posts and place it on a blog or website. Excellent content as always:)
     
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  19. Nelzie

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    Clearly.... TFGH would be the FAR superior choice, since they are located, dead center in the keyboard!

    So what if WASD with E, R and F as secondary keys of great importance has been standard for more than a decade now! SO what!

    LOL... I am picking up, what you are putting down.
     
  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    I use rdfg. It still lets my pinky hit space easily, but gives me a lot more keys. Then I wrap the combat bar hotkeys around instead of leaving them default, so I can stack way more easily. 1234567 becomes ase45th.
     
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