No More SotA Item Price List...

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Duursyrras, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. Duursyrras

    Duursyrras Avatar

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    back in October i decided to copy/paste the info from shroudoftheavatar.net/sotaItemPriceList (shutdown recently) into a spreadsheet, and now that the site has come down for good, i figured i might as well share it and the couple other helpful links i've got at this point.

    in the absence of that helpful tool, maybe this wishlist thread will be bolstered by others posting here with more recent spreadsheets and links than mine...

    here's the Google link to Mac and PC files for download:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dPGXWQ5PFlrndZWExuX81iTOXwxE4oXo?usp=sharing

    and the only other sites i know with dubiously current values if any:
    BMC Official Price Guide - Britannian Mining Company (enjin.com)
    SOTA Traders - Market

    and an interesting one from that_shawn_guy:
    Economy - Grafana (sotagraphs.com)
     
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  2. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    A Global Vendor Search implemented by Catnip would alleviate the need for any 3rd party apps.
     
  3. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    So would one player spending a weekend compiling vendor data, making a spreadsheet, and selling the price lists every month on public vendors for a profit.
     
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  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I don't want to depend on what "another player" puts into a "once a month price list".

    I want Catnip to use the data that they already have ( in "real time" ) to include every vendor at every location in all of Britannia !
    I want EVERYONE who wishes to participate in an "economy" to be able to do so, without depending on his/her time to advertise on some 3rd party site that most all won't know about to begin with.
    I want a TRUE ECONOMY that doesn't depend on "location" - participation that doesn't depend on where in Britannia they happen to have a humble dwelling - that currently - nobody visits because nobody knows about it but you and a couple of friends.
    I want an economy where new players can buy from other new players - buy/sell things that are worth more than selling them to some NPC for a few pennies.
    I want an economy where we can shop in lots and lots places for items that we need/want.
    I want an economy with COMPETITION !

    I could go on, but by now I think you get my drift.... ;)
     
  5. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    I don't think I really understand what it exactly is you want, besides Ebay & Amazon and nothing else - essentially the bare minim effort for the easiest purchase transaction - which is to say the elimination of any merchant gameplay.

    You might read this article:

    Then try and define for me, what you mean by "TRUE ECONOMY".
     
  6. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Fair enough, @Sorgin Txakal - I will answer that ( actually I thought I did in my post ) - - after you explain what YOU mean by: "the elimination of any merchant gameplay" .
     
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  7. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Hes not talking about eliminating merchants or adding a one stop shop global auction house if i read right. Looks like he’s talking about better visibility.

    Same thing shroud.net did except in real-time.

    I think people are equating a search with remote buying, which isnt the same
     
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  8. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Exactly.
    I'm strongly in favor of a global listing

    Less excited about remote buying, although I'd be willing to tolerate it if it were the only way to get a global listing - as it can serve a purpose like provide much needed cash sinks.

    I absolutely HATE auction house mechanics and feel they are too easily abused to artificially manipulate prices.

    For me ideally we'd have something like a market board you can place, interact with it to return item, price, quantity, location. Then you travel there and get it. If the player has made an attractive storefront, or is nearby other shops in a market type setting, I'm absolutely likely to browse or stick around to chat. All the same things that apply now will still apply - someone who's got good prices or consistent stock is going to get visited more often - its just going to increase visibility for everyone.

    It also will solve the big "price confusion" that seems to exist in this game - still the most commonly asked questions from new and not-new players are to do with prices of things. Now you can simply check.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  9. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    I'd be happy with vendor receipt data going to the API. At least then we would know the source of the data is correct, potentially realtime, and effortless for people to contribute.

    Sotanet's main weakness was having to rely on players uploading their discarded game mail files. Some people were not willing to share those as they contain all game mail. Some people were not willing to upload regularly or just forgot. Some people were not technical enough or just couldn't be bothered to upload them.
     
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  10. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    Id like to see that too. For a while i figured have 1 or 2 in npc towns would create a gathering area people naturally hang out at, but now im not sure that would be the case.
     
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  11. CICI

    CICI Avatar

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    Meet in the middle! Vendor Search within same town with prices! make players walk to the vendor to buy the item... UO has Vendor Search! lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  12. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    EXACTLY !

    @CICI
    You know as well as I do - that there are between 200 & 300 towns in Britannia ! Walking to each one to see what's in a town is an impossible task and would take days !
    Having a GLOBAL VENDOR SEARCH needs to be GLOBAL - not per town.
    So.... I'm sorry, but walking to each town every time you want to buy something would not help much at all.
     
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  13. Sorgin Txakal

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    What do you propose becomes of the hundreds of dollars worth of properties and vendors people bought who invested in a good marketing footprint, when there is no longer a reason to have any merchant cities or more than one vendor?
     
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  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    @Sorgin Txakal - Kindly explain what you are referring to as "a good marketing footprint" and then I'll be happy to respond.
    Since you are against a GLOBAL VENDOR SEARCH, your answer - I believe - will be quite revealing.
     
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  15. Sorgin Txakal

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    I mean, our guild has vendors in Crafter's Town, Brit Martt, Silverdale, Beran's Reach, Lys Market, Crossroads Alleys, Xenos, Jaanaford, Fallin' Green, Far Green, Multiple locations in Beran's Reach - I'm probably forgetting some - many in prime locations that were acquired through negotiation, patience, and in some cases setting alarm clocks for 3am to grab lots as soon as they became available.

    This was done to increase guild awareness as well as ensure that people would find a LAMP Guild vendor eventually, but could easily find one if they go to any of the major market towns.


    The whole point of having market towns is that they offer attractive real-estate in order to be visible and accessible for people looking to shop - like a super market or strip mall. There are many players in the game who have developed and are expanding their own brands, some of which I have the joy of competing against directly with what I offer through our guild vendors.

    This is why lots in Soltown and Ardoris are so appealing, they are prime real estate locations that new players can't help but see, and why NPC cities with master trainers in general don't have problems filling lots around the trainers or default entrance.


    Merchant players compete with each other & merchant cities compete with each other by making themselves convenient and appealing. The markup you are paying in Crafter's Town, for example, is the convenience fee for being able to find whatever you are looking for without issue, and the most successful merchants there and in other trader cities invested heavily in good locations and ample stock of the most commonly sought after items.


    The global vendor search you are proposing, would essentially do to merchant cities what amazon and ebay did to malls - make them ghost towns.


    So, if you don't think that location, advertising, word of mouth, and negotiation between city governors and players should be prime factors in the economy, I go back to my original question to you: "What do you mean by TRUE ECONOMY"?

    And if global vendor search is created, what do you propose people should do with their redundant vendors and locations they used to establish a marketing footprint in the game?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  16. Duursyrras

    Duursyrras Avatar

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    i'm staying out of the argument except to say, i do believe there's quite a bit a nativism in the world that's glaringly reflected in this game...and quite a lot of evidence of how predatory practices have become normalized...those ways of thinking aren't the only ways, and there're not the best simply because their profitability ensured we'd believe they're the best...everything can change for the better.
     
  17. Duursyrras

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    and dag, where are all the links to everyone else's price lists!?!?
    ; ]
     
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  18. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I didnt consider this before, but a global vendor search would make it more viable to sell in nested towns.
     
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  19. kaeshiva

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    Even with global search functionality though - prime real estate will still be prime real estate.
    Having a shop in a town that people pass by frequently or pass through frequently due to other amenities there still has a benefit, as does having/maintaining a network of shops in many locations.

    As a consumer, if I have to go to Owl's head say, for a recipe, a particular trainer, for the blacksmith who pays better prices, etc. I'm going to walk past a long row of shops. And that is your opportunity to make an attractive storefront, a catchy sign or vendor name, to get me to stop and click on it. That's your high street value and typically we find things are a bit spendier in these locations because of impulse buying. That tracks with expectations.

    People with lots in oft-travelled areas, central areas, near town entrances/exits, along quest paths, etc. will still get the benefit of their exposure.

    Likewise, if I know of a place where there is consistent reliable inventory and good prices, regardless of where it is, it could be a hut in a swamp on the corner of the map, I'm going to walk there to shop. Especially since we have so many more teleport options now. It just doesn't matter. But I wouldn't run out there unless I was after something in particular.

    And if I'm after something in particular, I am absolutely NOT going to sit through 50 load screens to check 25 towns where something 'might' be, and wait for vendor after vendor after vendor to load. I simply don't shop. So nobody gets my money, or I'll use forums, discord, word of mouth, etc. and bypass the system entirely.

    Even with a search and listing, good spots are still going to be good spots.
    If I'm looking for a bunch of stuff, and I see many of them in 1 town, I'll likely go there and browse rather than make several stops around the world to save a little bit of money - my TIME has value too, and I am certainly willing to pay more for a well presented shop layout, better vendor management (ie, stack quantities, things that save me clicks) etc. Especially if its located in a town near where I'm headed anyway. Same thing for buy orders - if someone sets up a shop buying silver ore at a town right outside Twins Foothills, even if they're paying slightly less for it I'm more likely to hit it on my way home unless someone's paying a lot more elsewhere.

    And I mean, I still get it, why the people who have come up with workarounds due to investment, effort, advertising, and building up a business and brand can be a bit reticent to embrace a more transparent market - but at the end of the day, its about what's best for the game as a whole. I think obstacles to entry into systems like the market need to be evaluated if we're ever going to get wider visibility, and things like item prices and knowing what's worth your while to go and fetch to make a profit (based on available listings/buy orders/etc.) is information people need to truly immerse in that system. I think it will also stop wasting a LOT of our time, seeing vendor after vendor packed with the same random assortment of overpriced brick-a-brack languising for months. And while in some ways this creates a 'race to the bottom' in other ways it creates a 'race to the top' with buy orders as supply and demand continue to fluctuate the value of commodities. If everything ends up getting priced lower and lower, that means there is too much of that and not enough use for it, which would actually be beneficial data to be feeding back to the devs. IE, tungsten being worth barely more than the NPC will give you, while nickel/tin go for considerably more - this is a supply/demand issue due to the nature of the associated recipes and the higher availability of tungsten. If the devs can see what stuff bottoms out in the market, that's a good item to put in the next new recipe pass instead of adding more uses for things that are already expensive/rare.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  20. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

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    Really? The entire declining economy?
    How many Avatars should I name you who complained about the current Vendor System?
    They complained that they cant find what they want and / or they have not the time for a hours of searching.
    Some tried the crafting system, but because crafting is also not fun, they gave up and now they are all gone.
    But yes, the vendor system as it is, is so much fun and brings many new players to your Vendors. :rolleyes:
     
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