NPC Towns, what makes them special?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rune_74, Jan 26, 2016.

?

Are NPC towns distinctive enough?

  1. Yes, I think they are.

    14.8%
  2. Sort of, they need to spend a bit more time with them.

    37.0%
  3. No, they need a lot of work.

    48.1%
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  1. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    As we progress here I keep looking at the towns that have been put in place and thinking, where is the memorable towns? I can't really think of anything that sets these towns up as anything more then a PoT with some extra NPC buildings.

    Can you honestly say they have anything special about them?

    What sets them apart from a PoT other then player ownership?

    Are they just hubs for crafting?

    I thought about listing them off and mentioning each one and asking what set them apart, but I honestly would be saying the same thing over and over again. I guess Adoris is a bit different, but it doesn't have a lot of personality.

    Not one town even has the character of Trinsic in Ultima 7.

    In my mind they all need to be enhanced and thoroughly inspected to give them personality so that they don't feel like a PoT with more NPC's buildings.

    This is one of the major features of the Ultima's that I don't think can be glossed over. They shouldn't just be hubs for players to meet...they need to have personality and immersion.

    I have included a poll to see what others think.
     
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  2. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    This is why I think NPC towns are special
    • They contain story content and a reason for all players to visit. This promotes the most desirable side-effect of brewing with activity. This is #1 in every way.
    • They are not subject to the whims of a ruler, especially a player ruler. This instills a sense of security. Further, no ruler means no obligations (other than rent).
    • They are not subject to decay from rulers that left the game or cannot play enough.
    This is why I think Player towns are special
    • They contain "potentially" more personalized RP content because the players are making it.
    • They can help protect people from trolls.
    • They are especially well equipped to serve groups of people with common interests, like guilds and etc.
     
  3. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    I don't really want this to be about why one is better then the other, just that NPC towns don't feel special at all right now. If we go down that other road this will get derailed by you know who.
     
  4. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    In Ultima Online, towns don't really matter much after awhile. It's rather a nuisance having run around and find things, especially in Trinsic. I like Cove much better because of the size.

    It also all come down to where people hang, and that would be West Brit Bank.
     
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  5. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    Sorry, I responded to my interpretation of the title. I realized after that you were targeting a different question about variances in NPC town content.
     
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  6. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    Ultima online isn't the example I was using, I was using trinsic from ultima 7....In my opinion the towns in UO lost what made them special in the older games.

    I hope others feel the same way I do on that.
     
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  7. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

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    This is a good opening post.

    Visual distinctiveness for NPC towns is important for the game in the long haul, I believe. If there is too much repetition, it will reduce player base interest in circulating through towns to see them regularly.
     
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  8. Ice Queen

    Ice Queen Avatar

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    I've brought it up before along with the size of them. I'm surprised the subject doesn't come up more often. I don't see much individualism from one to the other unfortunately. :( I don't know if it's just the same assets being used in them all or the layouts, or both, or something else altogether. I have been waiting for some really beautiful cities to come online, but so far they're mostly dirt road towns with the same dirty brown and white buildings, same assets, same textures, not a lot of detail etc. :( Kingsport is only my favorite town because I can get around really quickly from from the Hidden Vale to Novia pretty quickly. I'd love to see them each have some uniqueness. I'm hoping they're placeholder-ish to get them up and they will go back over them individualize them. :)
    *edit*
    Ok, now there's one I like, Resolute.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  9. mdsota152

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    - each town should have it's own architecture... they currently don't. They use the same style buildings everywhere... I know this is just to get them in and up and running... so hopefully they'll swing back through and swap out some buildings and such.
    - there should be vendors only available (or at least items) in certain towns.
    - we know they have to finish off distinct NPC visuals so I'm waiting on this.
     
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  10. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    Kiln and Jaanaford seem very similar. So do Braema and Soltown. The other towns seem unique in their own ways, though.
     
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  11. Leostorm

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  12. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

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    Ardoris is very distinctive. It is my favorite town. I love the design! The reason it can have its own look and feel is because players can only place row houses, so there is a uniform style. Solania is another town with a distinctive atmosphere, as is Kingsport, although they were based on the same template if I remember correctly. As long as players have the freedom to place any home they want on their lot, towns (except row lot towns) will never have their own special look. Elf homes, viking homes, wizard towers, obsidian towers, etc etc are all nice on their own and look great in the right setting, but when jumbled together in one neighborhood they don't help to give a town a unique personality. It would indeed be nice if at least the NPC buildings had an individual flair to them, and NPCs in human towns need to be more diverse and town-specific. I love the guards designed by @Leostar.
     
  13. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    I agree with Rune. The towns are lacking personality and soul right now.
    I think this is due to different reasons:
    Most towns look similar. Without knowing the name of a town they could be mistaken for each other. Now look at the old Ultimas. Even without knowing that Yew was Yew or Minoc was Minoc the towns were so distinctive and unique that you knew them apart just by visiting them.
    Also NPCs with their daily routines and personalities made the towns in the Ultimas feel unique. You knew you were in Britain just by visiting some NPCs. Or you visited Paws and instantly knew your way around, knew the NPCs there, knew what happened in the mill and on the fields etc. It was like coming home. This is entirely missing right now from the game.
    Each town in the old Ultimas had a unique theme. You knew the city just by it's music. This is not the case in SotA as every area does have multiple tunes so there is not one tune you can associate with the area or city.

    Right now the towns in SotA feel like soulless hubs that look too similar. Maybe NPCs with their own personalities and schedules will change this somewhat but I doubt that we can reach the atmosphere of an Ultima 7...

    As for Ardoris. The city is way too clean. It looks as if someone is scrubbing the floors the whole time. Where is the dirt? In medieval times people poured their dirt from the windows onto the streets. Where are the dark alleys you don't want to go to at night? Where are the details in the city? It is a hub.

    I think a city should be designed like an interesting NPC. It should be unique, have a unique look and feel and get its own personality and background. A city should not just a be a bunch of houses and lots.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  14. Ristra

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    Currently, I see all the towns as frame work. The rest of the zones too for that matter.

    Nothing in game is distinctive or memorable. Yet.
     
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  15. Hermann von Salza2

    Hermann von Salza2 Avatar

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    May not of been what he was after, but it sure was a nice post. I agree on all points :)
     
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  16. Ashlynn [Pax]

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    Some of the towns have personality I think - Vertas I really like for example - the inside of it feels like an elven town and the keep has a little uniqueness to it.

    Ardoris I like a lot too - I think the overall layout lends it some individuality and I like what they are trying to do with the theme. However the veneer feels a bit shallow currently - it needs it's own local style of clothing, quisine, and perhaps some junk-like boats in the harbour. It could use it's own individual music too.

    Some of the villages are nice (I like Desolis a lot and I also like Braemar) but they eventually get drowned out by all the player housing as the lots fill up. You just get a tiny little cluster of individuality in the middle of lots of player lots full of random buildings. And the player houses don't help in that regard because the building styles are all so random (obsidian towers, ornate viking houses, wedding-cake towers, adobe buildings, etc) with no unified theme. The ultimate result is like many colours bleeding into one bland mix. This is just a consequence of the housing system and having player lots make up the majority of structures in NPC towns so there isn't much that can be done without changing the design approach to NPC towns entirely.

    But there are some pretty dull towns too. Etceter is the worst offender in this regard. It is described as being a town full of fauns and humans so I was expecting something really unique. Instead it feels generic, empty, and boring. You wouldn't even know fauns lived there if there weren't a few standing at the gate.
     
  17. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    Well Poll results so far is different then I expected, I expected most to say they were quite good and not to get as many no they are not.

    It's not just about what buildings are there and how the player owned houses are laid out....it's the soul of the town. Ask yourself this, walking into a town can you tell what the town is for or why it exists at the moment? Adding some unique NPC's can help that, but I'm unsure when that is coming.

    This was a major feature in the Ultima games, each town you grew to love and admire for their uniqueness....there are what 30+ npc towns?

    At the moment they might as well be PoT's...

    When will they have time to work on these Towns now?
     
  18. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I think part of the problem of the dullness of NPC towns is that they all offer the absolute majority of their space as housing for avatars.

    I know it's a necessity for real estate. I know it costs far more to create a real NPC street, compared to a PC-filled neighborhood. I know everything.

    But the only distinctive parts of cities are where NPCs are the only buildings, like in OH's Peddler's Row, or in Sequanna Square, or in the Solania docks.

    When piles and piles of houses are players ones, they necessarily seem flat, unlively, repetitive.

    A necessary evil. But an evil nonetheless.
     
  19. Matheryn

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    from bits of info that ive read - towns will have sieges\events where PoTs wont
     
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  20. Kacey Cupcakes

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    THIS.
    As stated many times, including in the Winter Telethon and in the Quarterly Schedule.
     
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