Nudity and Sexual Content

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Rasaro, Apr 24, 2013.

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  1. CaptainJackSparrow

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    Oh. God. No. Please god no.

    I guess we need to replace the S in SotA.

    Sexy-time of the Avatar
     
  2. Ultima Codex

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    That adequately describes my mind. And I'm not so much equating them as noting certain parallels in the arguments presented for each...and, correspondingly, in the objections to each line of argument.
     
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  3. MagiK

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    OK UC that makes sense to me then. Not what I thought you meant originally.
     
  4. Ultima Codex

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    Nothing of the sort. I'm simply noting something that Richard Garriott has himself stressed: limited PvP that is stuffed into walled-off zones (WoW, SWTOR, etc.) is not an ideal solution for PvP in a game like this, but neither is unrestricted, open PvP (in spite of the fact that yes, it does enable certain kinds of arguably meaningful role play). PvP in Shroud of the Avatar will be a via media, a middle way between these extremes, and Portalarium have teased out a few ideas about this thus far.

    This parallels the discussion here. You, for example, seem to be in opposition to the strict non-inclusion of nudity in the game. Captain Jack, on the other hand, seems to be coming from the opposite side, and seems to more or less oppose the inclusion of nudity in the game. In the broad sense, you two represent the extremes of this debate, neither of which is an ideal solution to the matter at hand. Should Portalarium decide to include adult content in Shroud of the Avatar, it will probably again be a sort of middle way between your two viewpoints, intended to maximize the potential for role play whilst also mitigating as many possible negative outcomes (because there are potentially negative outcomes, because other people on the Internet) as possible.
     
  5. Silver Sterling

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    Uhh, well theres aswell the Islam. So a Çarşaf (What a googling to get the name ;)) could be the best clothing style for SOTA:
    http://muslimvoices.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/0niqab_sokabs_23524360.jpg
    (Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;D)

    Well, actually i personally can't serve with sex stories. The females who are most near to me are most likely my mother and my sister. At least, that are the two, i know where they are living. ;)

    For nudity and sexy underwear (most as example of the t-string), i actually think something like this is okay as underwear (and aswell something i see as short):
    http://2u.pacn.ws/640/h1/Lineage_II...PVC_Figure_Dark_Elf_Brown_Skin_v_306797.4.jpg
    http://3u.pacn.ws/640/h1/Lineage_II...PVC_Figure_Dark_Elf_Brown_Skin_v_306797.3.jpg
    and because i linked it already somewhere ;p
    http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/025/c/1/catgirl_doodle_by_ricegnat-d5sq9u2.jpg
    (shouldn't be shorter, or we have some problems. ;))

    For the erotic, there could be something like fantasy leather bikinis:
    http://www.malindalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/083011badhuntress.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/GalaxyCommander/Drow or Dark Elves/drow.jpg
    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31fNn+yGhNL.jpg
    http://elvespictures.com/images/gallery/uploads_big/Dark-Elf-Lineage-II-by-Isthar-art-71.jpg
    (without the "armor" metal. some decoration is fine, but the idea behind is, that it wouldn't limit the body and could be used by acrobatics or assassines. Would be diversion clothing, because it shows skin or for some gladiatorial fighting.) I personally think its fitting, because the game should be gender equal and we all know the gladiatorial stuff we had on earth. And i don't think the SOTA world would be so uptigh. Ok full nudity is a no go. Ok, right looking on the beach, there are even such outfits in our world.

    For bordels, we could have something like silks:
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7FcvgeXqgl8/T24QY-83VHI/AAAAAAAABhM/S2aNQ-lFLcM/s1600/roawenwood_002.jpg
    http://www.blakopal.com/fashions/index_files/mkt-festivaloutfit-tiger-01.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dmtT9jI4RnI/UHHaSzSOBLI/AAAAAAAAFO8/-TGXCTlT0uE/s1600/sylph_002.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k-L_eg5MX5w/UHNJM3408QI/AAAAAAAAFTQ/hrIkm--_utQ/s1600/elvenb_003.jpg

    Yes, something like this i think would fit it. And who wants full nudity by so nice clothings? :D

    Ok, now we can close the thread. ;)
     
  6. MagiK

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    While I like some of those outfits, Im sure they won't fly in game outside of a mod.
    Personally I liked the concepts of "Ethical Hedonism" as esposed in the in game books in Ultima IX and others
    for the approach of sensuality and adult interaction.....but I dont see how it can be implemented in a game where
    there are minors on line.
     
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  7. Myth2

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    This precludes most arguments for mature content unfortunately.
     
  8. Silver Sterling

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    Well, for the outfits, its some idea to include some skinny short clothings. Of course it would have to be balanced and how much skin it shows is another question. For the clothings i linked, many of them would need rework, because they have aswell *armor* parts. But this shoudn't be an armor, yust clothings. And yes, if they consider to show some skin in the game aswell (we heard about the older Ultima games who did), they should balance it correctly. And we all know, sex sells, so most games have their bikini stuff inside. So we don't need sex, but the game can be sexy. I see nothing against it. With some nice sexy clothings, correctly balanced (so no steel bikini with a armor stengh of 100 or something.) it could have some charm. For the clothings i linked, they where fast googled ones and woudn't be fitting to be taken 1 by 1. Many have way to much metal. ;)
    Only problem i see is, that this has to be balanced, that not everybody is running around in such outfits. I actually see it like for Assassins. You are fast, you can evade very well, but if you're hit, you're aswell very fast dead. So something like the fast deadly temptation. So don't fall for it. ;)

    Well, for the minor peoples, i think we will be able to uncloth the character to have only underwear. Why not something, what actually looks nice. ;)

    This could applicate for male outfits aswell, but i think i am not so qualified to seach for such outfits. ;)
     
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  9. Ultima Codex

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    Keep in mind, too, that this team doesn't for the most part seem to be the sort of development team that is particularly inclined toward overt sexualization of player-characters or NPCs (this notwithstanding).

    See also here, and some of the discussion here surrounding the presence or absence of leggings on the female avatar model.
     
  10. Isaiah

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    Add on content could be boobie traps, and smithy lubricants.
     
  11. Silver Sterling

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    Have seen the threads. Ok, one of them. The other one is absolutly new for me. 0-)

    First of all, this is NOT an armor. I understand the talking about the talk about unrevealing armors and fully understand them. A armor who is revealing is a way to easy target. It blocks your movement and has open points, where you can be hit way to easy. I personally don't like them aswell.

    What i suggest is more like a dress for combat without an armor. I personally can think about this very well in a world, who isn't so uptight because of some church. And even in real world are many sexy clothings. So nothing speaks against it. And if you fight against an enemy, a fully robed unreveled dress, who isn't an armor would most likely be more restricting as something i suggested in the pics.
    Of course we have the uptight rection of the peoples. We could even build this into the game. That the peoples (aswell npcs) don't like it to much to see dresses like this outside of bordels. Would aswell be funny, if peoples think you're a prostitute if you run around like this in town. Think with the right balancing, we can make the game a bit more open to give peoples who want to see a bit more aswell something to play (and i don't mean sex now), but can still keep it on a lower level.

    Actually getting the idea, if it could be possible, that the NPCs can adapt to the reaction of the majority of the players. So if peoples don't like this skiny peoples, that they can talk about it with NPCs or in front of NPCs and they will take this opinion aswell. Such a mechanic could keep the game more open and when the humans arrive there, they can spread their opinion in the world.
     
  12. Isaiah

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    Yeah. How about bath houses, and cat houses in game? It brings realism to the realm. Just imagine if you could PvP your "partner" after your "transaction" to get your money back. That's totally grand theft auto style!

    There's really no limit to where the game can go with this, and we still haven't even got to the part about the dwarfs yet....
     
  13. Isaiah

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    Question, is "my little pony" still on topic in this thread? If so I have some ideas. If not then disregard.
     
  14. Ultima Codex

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    I'm not sure religion has much to do with it. I mean, yes, I'm Catholic, but in my experience the average forum denizen here is more likely to not be a churchgoer or professing member of any faith in particular. I could be wrong, of course, and the mod team tends to quickly shut down religious and political discussions when they pop up. But again, my experience is that religion is not hugely prevalent in these forums.

    Equally, I note that many of the people who speak out against sexualized content, both here and in the gaming media in general, tend not to be religious. In like manner, I doubt there are many churchgoers on the Shroud of the Avatar development team.

    All of which is to say that this isn't a debate about religious prudery versus enlightened whatever. In general, both sides of this debate are operating from secular principles.
     
  15. Silver Sterling

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    The Church in the dark age. There they had the power back to this time and they actually have taken care, that showing sexuality is a sin and peoples doing so come to hell. This characterized our society today still in some way.

    And yes, i am aswell against a game beeing mostly sexualizing. But i think it should give the player the freedom how he want to look. How the NPCs and other player will react on this and how good it will be for his place in the society, is of course something completly different. ;)

    Has cat house something to do with uhm. Cats?
    http://www.blogcdn.com/realestate.aol.com/blog/media/2011/09/16cats2-fauna-plus-design.jpg

    Oh, to be honest, i think i tried to push this topic a bit away from pure nudity and sex. ;)
     
  16. Isaiah

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    To be honest I didn't expect anybody to reply to those comments even though they are on topic. I hoped that if just one person in ten had a chuckle that was good enough for me.
     
  17. Ultima Codex

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    That's a bit of a mis-representation of the history of the matter, not leastwise because the Dark Ages did not exist, as such. At least, no reputable historian is going to use that label in academic discourse.

    Heh...and apart from some off the cuff writing by Augustine, I don't think the Church ever said that all sexuality was sinful. The stereotype about massive Catholic families would seem to belie that notion. ;)

    And arguably, it was the Puritan movement (and Victorianism too) -- not "The Church" -- that had more direct influence on American sexual morés. It may be all the same to you, but ultimately these are fundamentally different schools of philosophical thought.

    But anyhow, this is all wildly off topic. What say we get back on task?

    I probably agree more than I disagree, but I'm not nearly as sanguine about what a not-insignificant subset of players are likely to so with that freedom.

    Griefers gonna grief, and we really don't need to see SotA players up on Jezebel or Xojane complaining about involuntary sausage parties their avatar(s) were subjected to.
     
  18. High Baron Asguard

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    Wow digital ****, never thought we would come to this sort of argument.

    I think this is going off topic but 2 things come to mind reading your post, the first is that I don't remember you jumping all over that thread calling for the devs to impliment a system of skinning people and forcing the victims to watch or putting player heads on spikes outside someones house. Personally I found THAT thread disterbing on oh so many levels

    Second thing is that this is meant to be a social game, therefore I can't imagin the devs haven't thought about antisocial behavior and how its going to be delt with. Hell I actually would say that walking around waving an avatar's penis in someones face would actually be quite low on the antisocial behavior scale. The upper end would be cyberbullying leading to suicide which has happened. This is such a serious thing that laws are being introduced around the world to deal with it.
     
  19. Deathblow

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    Your Guild needs a Protocol officer really bad. Who's running that racket?
     
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  20. Ultima Codex

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    You think it wouldn't be at least attempted, if the game systems allowed for it at first? There's a certain sunset of players - we have some here on these forums, no doubt - for whom griefing others IS the main object of gameplay. And one method is as good as another for such as these.

    Oh, I'm not claiming that we'd have an Oslo-like epidemic of such behaviour, but...it's not so far-fetched to imagine it being attempted once, if the game systems allow for it.

    It's a big forum, and I am but one mod among many. I cannot - and don't attempt to - cover the entirety of the forum, and I actually have no recollection of ever happening upon that thread. Not that I doubt your claim of its existence; I just don't recall ever tripping over it personally.

    That said...yeah, that's rather disturbing.

    So...I guess what I'm saying is that while I appreciate the attempt to call me out on a moral equivalence technicality, it just doesn't work here.

    I'm sure most game developers in the post-UO era have thought about how to deal with it. And yet, griefing still exists in various ways, places, and forms. To say nothing of the fact that games are ludicrously complex systems, which are often nigh-impossible to completely test for bugs and exploits by launch. Whereas players are often very good at finding every way possible to bend the rules.

    Quite possibly, though obviously it'll depend on who the witness is. Among other things.

    I too agree that this is quite severe, and in fact we've even had to deal with bullying on these forums. It'll probably be an issue in-game, and it will have to be dealt with there as well.

    Of course, this is somewhat beside the point of the discussion at hand, in spite of its being an issue worthy of due consideration.
     
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