Observation on Crafting Enjoyment: Deco vs. Armor/Weapons

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by mass, Apr 12, 2017.

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  1. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    If the games going to succeed, yes. You can't keep the crafters subsidizing gear creating AND then have none of it sell if you want SotA to win.

    The gamble is that prices rise to meet cost. If cost goes down to meet price then I take a loss.

    I'll be happy either way, I want the game to fly. In the meantime, I'm filling up a trunk.

    -------

    Epilogue: "As he thought about his last statement, he wondered how much gear hoarding accounts for sales? The Devs have said gear sales are barely moving (I've tried to offload some of my stock, and usually give up,) how much is even used?"
     
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  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Somehow I doubt crafters pay 1 million gold in coal and molds to make one high level suit. If you do the harvesting yourself, there's no excuse for the current market prices.
     
  3. Hermann von Salza

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    The whole crafting interface needs much work imho. Simple Uo 2d top down had a better feel to its crafting than this.
     
  4. Turk Key

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    Respectfully, Bowen I have to disagree based on my own experience. I am adv level 90 and have made all my own gear. I am still not satisfied with it yet. The problem is boredom. Mining is mind numbing. I can mine all day if I choose without any risk vs the mobs. I have to choose whether to have some fun adventuring the various scenes generating cash or mine all day trying to stay awake in misery. So I choose to adventure and buy the mats, mostly gold and silver. I have easily spent over a million on ore since persistence. You are right, I could have spent all this time being miserable with the goal of having the gear I desire. It is a personal choice to earn the cash and have fun in the process. Economy wise earning and spending the gold at vendors is a good thing IMO because I am for sure supporting the poor souls who actually like mining. To me it is a win-win and I have not been complaining here on the boards about the situation other than pointing out that there is a gross misunderstanding of the time effort and money involved. Perhaps others may think that it is stupid for a person to set personal goals related to gear that they would never do for themselves. To each his own. However I hope that everyone can understand that the activity is fantastic for the economy.
     
  5. Hermann von Salza

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    I could Mine 10k ore of each except Valorite which I could only do about 5K of in about 3-4 days maybe a week if I am doing other things. I liked mining all the pretty colors, take 5 steps and hit ore Kinda sounded like you were digging instead of hearing & using some china made pick axe striking the concrete. I will tell you a Truth, it was 10x more fun to mine in Uo than here. In all fairness though, collecting leather is a bit easier here, but still Liked the horned and barbed leather.
    Sincerely,
    Micron Forge &
    Micron's Kevlar

    Edit leather is easier to get verse ore here, but Leather hording in Uo was more abundant.
     
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I'm waiting for the part where you actually disagree. What excuse is there for such high prices for a resource you otherwise get for pretty much nothing but your time? You don't touch on this at all except to say that you yourself are willing to pay those high prices. I know what it takes to get those resources and I find the idea of paying a million of anything to be.. not worth it. But then I still want to be able to think of currency in-game as something that has value which is perhaps another discussion entirely.
     
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  7. Arya Stoneheart

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    Now I know what to craft, I shall be a chef.

     
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  8. Adam Crow

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    You guys crack me up with your ridiculous pricing, 1 million for a +14 fustian chest is insane.

    You can make a +14 chest with just 2 Enchants and 3 masterworks btw.
     
  9. 2112Starman

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    Wow, sure... after you crafted a total of 50, got 10 that were +1 and then blew up 9 of those enchanting and MW'ing. Sure... then its only 2 enchants and 3 MW's.

    (besides the fact that for it to even be +14 you just spend 10 billion gold becoming a GM in the advanced skills spending 10 thousand hours doing it)

    seriously....
     
  10. mass

    mass Avatar

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    I suspect this is a factor in the expensive pricing of ore. If it was 'fun', more people would do it and supply would be higher.

    Time is the most valuable resource we have. That is precisely why prices are high, not because there is any skill in gathering or making those goods, but because of the extreme time consumed and the tediousness of the time spent. Yet people still want the advantage it offers.

    I hope you're right, but I'm betting the latter. I think when refining gets an overhaul, we'll see less demand on raw materials, more access to refined materials, and lower material cost per item. I think this will make crafting more enjoyable and will still provide for a high end market that can only be served by high level crafters. In a low cost mid-range market, item decay will be more easily accepted.
     
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  11. Bowen Bloodgood

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    No.. prices are high because

    1: Most players are greedy
    2: Some players are able to make so much money that they're actually willing to pay those prices.

    To add to this..

    3: Players usually have no idea what the value of something should be starting out and price high hoping to get as much as they can.. (plays into #1)

    Combine a single tier currency with the ability to make a lot of it at high levels along with unlimited gold faucets like NPC merchants with unlimited gold that will buy anything and everything.. and you get what we have.

    I can almost guarantee you that there aren't many players who take the time to calculate a good price based on how much time they spend in a mine.. unless it's compared to how much high level players make gold farming.
     
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  12. Adam Crow

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    Holy exaggeration...

    Its +1 to start and +2 when socketed with a gem. The special enchants add +3 so 2 of those and your already at +8. 3 mw's and you've got a +14.

    Those chests cost me around 3k to make. So if I spent 60k I could craft 20 and would probably get 5 or 6 exceptional. Very good chance I get a +14 out of at least one of those and if not I'll have a bunch of other usable pieces that I can sell off.

    Add in the cost of enchants and masterworks (at 3/3 it's about 7k per attempt) so 20×7000=140,000

    So you can make 20 3/3 fustian chests for 200k. If you think that you should be able to charge 1 million gold for one of them, well goodluck with that.

    You guys act like all the other pieces that aren't perfect disappear... sell them.
     
  13. 2112Starman

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    Wow... sorry man... it couldn't get any more real then what I said (I exaggerated on the billions of gold... but I would bet our GM crafters put tens of millions of gold into it).

    I handed the best crafter in this game 10 bronze +1 chest pieces (made over 40 total to get 10 +1)and got one +14 peice back. This person has GM's (and higher) in the entire enchanting and BS trees.

    I handed them 25 +1 Maple wands (of over 100 made) and got back 3... +13 and +14 wands.
     
  14. mass

    mass Avatar

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    But, like, that's not how economies work. Nobody who sells anything is ever interested in 'fair' pricing. They're interested in the highest price the market can sustain. We know how players value their time from what the market tells us. From the perspective you presented, because players are greedy and have gold, that a 1000% increase in ore production would have no effect on pricing?

    You may have a point that some high end players have a huge gold supply, supporting higher prices. I think it's harder for us to characterize that effect because the numbers there are a lot less clear then going into a mine and seeing how much ore you can dig in an hour. As well, manipulating that end of the economy is always dangerous as the goal is to reduce gold supply of high end players without affecting mid to low end players. Very difficult to do.

    I don't think there's too much pricing ignorance for high value/high volume items. Those are being bought and sold by experienced players. Those that get ripped off are buying/sell low to midrange items or low volume materials, which has an insubstantial effect on the larger scale economy.
     
  15. Adam Crow

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    Not everyone... there are fair prices if you know where to look.
     
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  16. Adam Crow

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    Bronze chain or plate is a different animal than fustian cloth. Im not going to argue with you there. My posts had nothing to do with blacksmithing. There's a reason why I specialize in cloth armor.
     
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  17. mass

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    Are they priced 'fair' because the market has told them that the price is the best margin, the quickest sell time, or are they being a good samaritan? I suspect most 'fair' prices result from the first two. I sell stuff cheap all the time, most of it is because I can't move it otherwise. I do occasionally put up noob friendly stuff for cheap (or simply donate it). If I could instead sell that stuff at even a tiny profit, I would. The healthiest thing in the world for crafting and the economy would be for crafters to be able to sell their mid to low range products for a slim profit margin to newer players.
     
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  18. Barugon

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    How the hell was mining in UO "10x more fun"? Take a step... double click... take a step... double click... take a step... double click... WOOHOO! I HIT A NODE!

    Mining in UO was way worse than SotA.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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  19. Turk Key

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    OK. It takes me about one hour to collect about 5000 gold by adventuring and selling loot. It also takes me one hour to mine 100 silver ore (perhaps more if I don't fall asleep). Thus the value of that 100 silver is about 5000 gold to me. It took me at least 8,ooo silver and 10,000 gold ore to reach GM in blacksmith, 60 in masterwork and about 60 in specialty masterwork for chain armor (plate and weapon are still at 20). My Alchemy is gm, but still have not gotten armor and weapon enchanting specialties over 40. The silver and gold come to a million gold. Now I am ready to craft a pair of boots. Recently I used up 1000 copper ore and a bunch of supple leather (lots of suet) and still have not gotten a pair of boots with anywhere near the buffs I am going for.
    This is typically 2 masterworks and 2 enchants on each exceptional piece I crafted. I lost all of my third masterwork attempts with nothing to show for it. I fail to see what the disconnect is here about the value of the ore. The miner for sure is not scalping at a price of 50 to 64 gold per ore. I cannot sell anything I make economically. I am simply out the millions absorbed by training and crafting after I am trained. My gear is for sure worth hundreds of thousands, but I give most of it away. I submit that giving it away is the worst thing I can do for the economy. But the real world is that no one believes that the intrinsic cost is so high and they refuse to buy anything but the best but want extremely low prices. To the extent that crafters have to bear the blame for scalping, cheating and whatever. I just craft for myself and avoid all the grief. I am keeping busy and enjoying myself a bit.
     
  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Who said I was talking about economics? Also, we aren't talking about real world economics.

    I guess I'm Nobody.

    Go

    The market tells us no such thing about players. Especially when they're pricing they way they are on day 1 with no idea what market value will end up being.

    As for pricing. I made no implication one way or another.. but the problem isn't just that players don't follow real world economics.. it's the inflated perceived value of the existing currency. The less people think the currency is worth, the higher they're going to price. There is also the expectation that things are now as they will be. But there are several factors that could still change the perceived value of currency.. such as going multi-tier which is still very possible. Now I'm not saying time isn't a factor.. but it's not really the driving factor behind prices. At the moment I'd argue the leading factor is low currency value due to stuff like I mentioned before.. like NPC merchants having endless gold to buy junk loot.


    I've been saying for years.. what you need is something players WANT to spend their extra money on.. repeatedly. They always work to overcome required expenses.. like rent.. but take something like gambling.. especially if it's fun.. would be a very effective gold sink.
     
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