Offhand Attack

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Greymarch, Sep 27, 2014.

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  1. Greymarch

    Greymarch Avatar

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    In the Tactics Tree: "Quick attack with 1-handed weapon equipped in the offhand".

    Is there even a reason to ever take this since it takes up the exact same amount of space as a regular attack in your deck? Maybe some more combo potential in the future?
     
  2. Curt

    Curt Avatar

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    Even if it takes up the same amount of space it could for example cost less focus.
     
  3. Drocis the Devious

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    I put the same thing in one of my feedback posts.

    No, it doesn't make any sense as a single attack because it removes your primary attack. It only makes sense (in this system) if it's part of a combo or a super powerful attack that does more than the primary weapon. Otherwise it's s very VERY stupid mechanic (since the entire combat system is based on Min/Maxing damage).
     
  4. MalakBrightpalm

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    I've yet to have a problem with running out of focus, my biggest problem has been cooldowns and draw speed. So deck space is, in my mind, a bigger issue than focus.
     
  5. Violation Clauth

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    We just talked about some of these points in the community hangout this evening! Check out my suggested revision to the tactics tree here: Tactic tree rework image
    The previous post has the video (2 hours long) with the conversation on many different combat/skill system design topics and our feedback to the devs.
     
  6. KuBaTRiZeS

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    I meddled with a two-wielding build yesterday and tried Offhand attack in different situations, and i concluded it's not meant to take off your primary attack. Allow me to explain with two case scenarios:
    • Using Offhand attack will discard/trigger the skill cooldown but it doesn't apply the global cooldown to the other abilities, allowing you to use Offhand attack + something.
    • Using any skill before Offhand attack will put all the skills in global cooldown, even Offhand attack. So the system doesn't allow you to use something + Offhand attack.
    I felt the first case as something intended and the second case as an implement failure because they forgot to take it in consideration; I think it was conceived as an extra attack of sort (and it works more or less like that) but something went bad midways :p.

    That being said, i also think two-wielding builds should have more spice; a half broken skill is not making two-wielding competitive. I feel that between the wielding options (two handed, shield + one handed, ranged, two wielding) is the one left behind by far.

    @Violation, as soon as i get home i'll check your Hangout, quite interested to see what you guys discussed! i'm planning to write a very extensive post about the combat and skill system, and i'd like to check out how many concerns I share with the members of the discussion ;).
     
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  7. Greymarch

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    I almost feel that discarding it should give you the defensive benefit of Riposte. Or you can use it as another basic attack. Give some options if not raw power.
     
  8. Malchor1

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    Why can't you use an offhand attack along with a wand or staff? As i was trying to play a pure mage build i figured an offhand dagger would be a fitting weapon, but didn't seem to work
     
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  9. Sunswords

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    I was wondering about that too - I tried a wand in the offhand with a sword in my main, but it didn't work.

    In a way I'm glad it doesn't, because as it stands now, that would be quite imbalanced. Can you imagine while dueling, I have full blade / hammer damage and kills, and I can move to range and interrupt your spell casts with near impunity? My character would effectively be both melee and ranged at the same time.

    While this may appear grossly inconsistent with the rest of the weapon design, I feel only certain weapons should be allowed in the offhand and/or perhaps a specialisation to effectively use them. I need to tinker around with this more.
     
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  10. MalakBrightpalm

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    Where balance is concerned, I think a better way would be to start with balancing the attacks and weapons against each other, considering only the resources consumed and advantages gained, regardless of the weapon or it's fluff. There is no reason why a fireball should do more damage than a sword, or less than an arrow.

    In the event of a spell that has range, root or slow, damage over time, debuffs, knockback, or the like, it should by necessity do LESS damage than an equivalent attack that does not have such benefits.

    An attack that has fewer, or none of these benefits, such as a basic melee strike, should do more damage.

    An attack that uses more than standard resources, such as a high focus consuming, two handed strike, should do significantly more.

    If that kind of balance was in play, it wouldn't be broken to dual wield wands, or have a wizard who used an offhand dagger, or a plate and shield user who had limited magickal skillls, or an archer with stealth, invisibility, healing, and teleportation...

    It's when we assume that a fireball should be stronger than a sword slash, AND ranged, AND apply burning, AND use minimal focus, AND reagents that are easier to carry than a bundle of high quality arrows... that cannot be balanced. No, not even by only letting the caster wear cloth.
     
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