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Our thoughts on Truth - Spoilers

Discussion in 'Release 46 Feedback Forum' started by Vladamir Begemot, Oct 18, 2017.

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  1. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Spoilers in the title, so I won't bother to put it all in a big spoiler link here. @Lord British said send feedback, so here we go! @Lum the Mad, enjoy.

    I'm aware that you guys are cranking hard on the story. This is just feedback for the current state. Bullet pointed list at the bottom.



    Starting in Jaansford, because getting sent there was where we left off when we petered out a few months ago.

    Viola is under the impression that we just got sent there as kind of a "tour of the town." Basically, there wasn't anything to do but talk to the innkeeper (which may or may not have bugged on her first time, but she got the quest update after I brought her back and she talked to her again.)

    Did seem like maybe there was someone in the town who we could tattle to about the drinking guard, but jeez I really don't want to be a gossip/nosy busybody.

    I had the feeling that we could go straight to Etceter instead of to Kiln. The innkeeper said go to Kiln though. I don't know it's possible, but here was my thinking:

    "Jee - I hope there's something to do in Kiln, I'd hate to skip it just because I can possibly go to Etceter first! Questing is fun!"

    Got to Kiln, little dude tells me to go to Etceter. SMH. Yes, we got a new emote, but that was just the opposite of fun.

    So today I ran down to Aerie, took the ferry to Elysium, ferry to Etceter, went into town. Viola teleported to me.

    Confusing/Bug:

    Travel to Etceter task should seem like it would disappear when arriving in Etceter. But it's tooltip mysteriously says "Find a way to book passage to Xenos." We have never been told to go to Xenos yet, so why is it telling us to? There is no indication in the Journal that this was the point of going to Etceter, and we are literally right at the entrance, just got here.


    Viola's beginning of the night feeling: "I'm curious. If I was alone that bug would confuse me."

    She asked a Satyr about Bonesteel, and he told her to give it to him. She wasn't afraid because he's a guard, and she was hoping he would take it and send her on her way, but is puzzled why nothing is going on with him after him talking about it.

    "Why he just ask to give it to him, and then won't take it?"

    (Meanwhile, I'm entering a bug where I have to force quit to get out of dialog with the PV.)

    Viola is enjoying choosing between pledging to kill or not the guys in the mines. She has no idea why she's going to get the black iron, though. She first talked to the Satyr that wants you to murder them all, then the Lady. She chose to not murder them, and now thinks she should go back to the Satyr to have him send her to the mines.

    Neither he nor the Lady waved at either of us.

    Lady Ransom tells me it would be best if we "Share a drink", and then when I click that she says she's fine, perhaps later. So fickle.

    I talked to the Harbormaster and see that she missed understanding that the Black Iron is a payment for passage to Xenos.

    I attempt to skip all the black iron stuff by just taking the ship to Xenos, as I would naturally do if Viola hadn't talked to the Harbormaster. So we're on two different tracks now.

    Now I'm in Xenos, needing to find a way to book passage here according to my task list. I'll ask around.

    In Xenos, Kiakis tells me I need to go to Artiface, but task list didn't update, and it's not noted in my Knowledge Journal. (I get that this flow isn't your intention, no need to tell me I'm doing it wrong, if someone gets to Xenos the way I did, they will run into exactly this issue.)

    Went to Artiface, greeter tells me I need to go to Xenos and talk to someone there for permission, can't remember the name already. Still no updates in the Journal/Knowledge.

    Back in Etceter, preacher elf tells me I need to get clearance in Etceter. Is he in charge of the lottery Kiakis mentioned? He doesn't even ask me anything, he just magically knows I can't go on. Must be a mind reader.

    I tell Kiakis he's a **** for sending me to Artifice. I see the lottery system mentioned again, perhaps he should indicate at this point in his conversation that I'm not getting in unless I've got a ticket or something, and so go back talk to Preacher Elf or go back to Etceter? To save me the walk up to Artiface?

    Logical weirdness here, why am I talking to the Harbormaster about getting passage, and that's somehow going to be me getting permission from the Etceter Satyrs? If I didn't know about the Harbormaster I'd be now looking for the "Council" or "Ruling body" for permission, not a dude with a boat.

    Wait... there isn't a nightime Harbormaster?

    And blast, now I need to decide about talking to the Lady and whether to murder all the bandits or not. Good job on the tough choices! I'd hoped to avoid them. :p

    I decided I'd do the opposite of Viola, and slay them all. I was a little disappointed by her answer, "Then the road will not be easy." Put some feeling in it lady!

    Went back to the harbormaster to ask where the mines are, he responds "Oh those mines are boring, you should avoid them." ..... ..... Hmmm... ok.

    To summarize in bullet point:
    • Jaanford and Kiln seem like pointless stops on the way, although both nice little towns.
    • Confusing Task List entry "Travel to Etceter"'s tooltip, how did I find out about needing to go to Xenos? It just magically appeared in the tooltip with no in game context.
    • Gating permission to artiface in the harbormaster is weird from several angles
      • It's easily circumvented, to the annoyance of anyone who does so
      • Preacher Elf says "Get permission," Why not gate it with someone important that isn't tied to boats I can easily circumvent, and who would legitimately have permission to give?
        • Preacher Elf also shuts down our conversation without even finding out I don't have permission from Etceter
    • Everyone says not to show the dagger to Satyrs. But if you do, nothing happens.
    • Elf in Xenos tells you to go to Artiface even if you aren't going to be able to get in.
      • He should instead do a check and send you back to Etceter if you aren't ready
    • Deciding about Merc'ing all the bandits is a good tough choice. Good job. They are bandits after all, but murder is bad sometimes so they say even though we do it all the time in the different levels.
      • Was unimpressed by her response to me telling her I'm about to murder her useful tool.
    • After telling me to go to the mines to kill everyone, Harbormaster tells me the mines are boring and to avoid them when I go to ask for directions.
     
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  2. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    You have to get from Etceter to Xenos by a "special" way. I had previously bug reported it but got shrugged off as it being intentional or something. I think there's a big difference between hand holding and not having a clue what to do, and right now things are still a bit too far to the latter.

    You can't just walk from Etceter to Xenos.
    You can't even use the ferry boat from Etceter.
    You have to do something which will take you to Xenos in a special way.
    You have to talk to an NPC in Etceter.
    The NPC takes you by boat.
    Then the elf guy (Notus?) in Xenos will finally talk to you.
     
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  3. Vladamir Begemot

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    @Elwyn Thanks, I did figure it, but one of the keys to testing is to also test edge cases. In this case, the only reason I wasn't totally confused is because Viola had been running around talking to people while I was entering a bug about the PV. Otherwise I would have headed straight to Xenos. Since I knew that, I was obligated to follow that train of thought and see if it works. Whicch it doesn't.

    Plus, it doesn't make a lot of sense to gate via boats/travel.

    Why not just have the player talk to an important Satyr, who is in contact with Preacher Elf, and says "Ok, I can get you in but I want you to go get this iron." Same thing, just a different person that isn't tied to travel, and thus not confusing?
     
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  4. Vladamir Begemot

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    Did the Crag Mines.

    I appreciated that you could fight you way through or not, although it is a bit confusing if you show up with one person in the party that is going to fight, and one that isn't. I sent Viola back out because they were already attacking me, and kicked her from the party so that she could do it without messing her truth up due to me having to fight.

    Back in Etceter, the Lady doesn't seem to remember me at all. Just figured out that her dialog updates after talking to the harbormaster, not after acquiring the Black Iron. Bugging it.

    Why did I bother to talk to her at all? Well, I was hoping she'd have something to say about me being a bandit killing murderer. But she didn't. She just suggests we have a drink, then says she doesn't have time for it, just like she tells Viola, who she would presumably appreciate.
     
  5. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    To go peacefully you are told specifically, repeatedly, that you must enter the mines alone.

    The bandits attacking you because you did not follow their directions is not a bug.
     
  6. Vladamir Begemot

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    I know, just feedback. I don't think she read the "have to enter on her own" but I had a feeling that was the case, so had her leave and go in her own party.

    And thanks for reading this!
     
  7. Vladamir Begemot

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    Finally went to Xenos last night.

    • Now preacher elf is super anxious that I get on the way to Artifice, while earlier he was sending me away because a boatman hadn't given me permission to go. Still seems contrived.
    • In Artifice, interesting rooms! I went "wow" with the feast and gold room. I like the other one too, it just wasn' a fancy.
      • I can see the potential of these and am just assuming they aren't done, and eventually the NPCs will have something to say and it will be about more than getting the keys.
    • The locked door that feels like the entrance being the exit is a design flaw. "But you teleported in" is not a good excuse to start players facing away from a door as if they just came in that way, then tell them they need to go deeper, meaning turn around and go through the door you think you just came through. This is a great way to have players running around lost and then afterwards curse the designers.
      • No one will say "oh that makes sense, by going deeper they really mean turn around and go out the way I thought I came in!"
    • And then we were lost in the labyrinth until bed time.
      • The part(s) where you are teleported into an identical hallway is spoiled by the characters doing the falling animation for a moment. If it is supposed to be obvious you teleported, then use sparkles or something. If it isn't supposed to be obvious, it isn't working as intended.
     
  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    Oh, I forgot the disturbing torture chambers. I tried to kill the torturers but couldn't. I hope this area become more interactive.

    Good concept, but by the end we were just blowing by because there is nothing to do there but get the same answers from NPCs all the way down.
     
  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    Ah, also forgot the giant death machine the smashes the kids. Good stuff in the Quake 2 feel, but I feel like it should fire after you stand there looking at the kids for a second, and maybe try to do something that gets them out. As it is, Viola was running down behind me and barely saw the carnage, and I only did out of the right side of my screen.

    ----

    Later I would learn that I supposedly had a choice on them being killed or not, and this reflects on my nature. Since it seems to be a trigger right at the entrance of the room or something, either Notus is lying or this is not representative of how I would have dealt with it. I didn't have a choice.
     
  10. Vladamir Begemot

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    We cheated on the labyrinth.

    I like the surprise that Boreas is dead already.

    Hephaestus has some problems with camera angles, it's easy to get him not in the picture during conversation.

    Generally enjoy the music the whole time.

    I didn't realize that Kiakis actually gave me the book, I kept asking him about it and was wondering what book he was talking about, even checking the ones on his table.

    Perri is interesting, I had heard about him one time previously before entering Artiface. It would be nice if I were like "Oh! It's you!" when I meet him, like a lot more build up.

    The Library is a pretty cool building. Same with the Forge.

    Viola was happy for no fighting on this quest.

    I generally liked it, I like the idea of what's going on there, I'll be forever miffed and wondering (until I reset) that I may have caused the crushing machine to crush the kids. If he's lying to me (Truth quest, after all) then I gotta wonder about whether that will once again be seen as a bug and make people mad at the game, rather than the character who they don't realize is lying to them.

    Ok, that's my feedback, Viola's got her crown! @Lum the Mad
     
  11. Vladamir Begemot

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    Oh, one other thing, we were supposed to go learn about the crown when going into the library, but everyone wanted to talk about other things, so we still don't really know what's going on with it.
     
  12. Osiris3

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    what if you go with someone (just to make it to the mines). is there still a way to get the Black iron? i'm currently stumped on how to proceed since i entered the mine with someone in the party.
     
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