Overland Map Changes

An overland view is still a map if you can't interact with the environment. Since all interaction between player characters and the game world happens in zones (which are linked to hexes), an overland view would be a very fancy map.

That's fine. There's no reason they can't have both. Darkmoon suggested earlier having a dual-scale map where the farther zoom level would render a cloth map much like what we're seeing now and the closer zoom would render a very detailed map (which one might call an overland view). As some have pointed out, too, the developers can add content to the existing map. What we're seeing in R5 isn't a new invention. It's stuff added to R4's map. While we'd all agree that this map is much better than the R4 map, RG has admitted that R5 is almost entirely about combat. Look what a difference just a little bit of change has made!

There's oodles of potential here, and I'm super excited to see what they can do with all the feedback they're being given. Don't lose hope, guys! Discussion is good, but keep in mind that the map is one thing that can change quite a lot in a short time.

OT: I'd also love to see a seamless world at some point, even if it means zoning between hexes old school EQ style. <3

 

Repetitive hexes, lack of continuity, and areas that are beyond the reach of the player shatter any sense of immersion.

 

Im sorry, but I feel this "improved" version of the map is still... well, terrible. The "cloth" texture feels like nothing more than a simple photoshop canvas texture filter. And the flat 2d planes, which are all distorted and wierd, look ridiculous.


Sorry if I seem overly negative here, but this is pants.

EDIT: Like I said before, the only way I feel like this could work is if they created artwork specifically designed to be viewed from an angled perspective. Right now they are trying to re-use flat artwork, just to be able to re-use stuff. I was assuming that the artwork before was placeholder, now that they have "improved" it, it is obvious that is not the case.

This feels cheap.

 

Every game /mmo has areas you can't reach ... maybe its a little more pronounced in the current state - its still early in terms of design time spent with the instances

Maybe the trick is not "hex to hex" travel but an "underworld where instance to instance" transitions make a little more sense in terms of "immersion" breaking

A new instance can load as you enter a new area - and a overland map "cut scene" appears indicating that you traveled from one hex to another - but you don't interact with it at all (only when travelling below ground)

 

Instance-to-instance zoning might well be a sort of "secret" stretch goal. I seem to have a memory of either Starr or RG saying that the ultimate goal is to give every hex its own zone. Does anyone else remember that?

 

The ironic thing is that the overland map is meant to impart a sense of scale but does the exact opposite. I feel increasingly trapped in little boxes.

I hope a seamless world is a goal of Episode 2 at least.

 

It's been stated that they are concentrating on instances for the main story first ... and then they will add variety but "how much" ... that's anyone's guess

 

Even the first iteration of the overland map/view looked better and had a better atmosphere and immersion. And this was without the free camera and free movement of the Rooster Teeth map...

 

I'll reserve judgement until I can play this evening.

As I've said, I can live with this art style (even though I hate it to death ).

I get that they only had time for minor improvements. I don't expect an overnight change. My biggest concern is that when they do have the time to give the map some love we still won't have an animated avatar (the flag is just unacceptable to me) or WASD movement. Those are the 2 most important map features for me. If they make it in, I can live with it.

 

I noticed with the map that just left clicking on the map where you want to go would bring you there. This is the first iteration I've tried so I'm not sure what it was last time.

Flag is still there though.

 

I want the hex to hex travel - and it may not be hard to implement - it's simply a cut scene I imagine.

The real problem is "variety" ... if the hexes are not unique or "paint" a "complete" landscape - that is to say to give off the impression of a "cohesive and uniform" terrain the hex to hex travel may be as equally frustrating.

I think that what is lost in this discussion is "what can get done right" ... if they can not make a 3d world map look good with current budgetary/time constraints it would be a mistake to stay the course ... specially if this means that other aspects of the game are getting more resources and more attention

As much as I like the 3d overland maps that have been presented in this thread ... how much time and money does it cause to make it? It is really within the budgetary scope of this project?

The other issue is the "concept"

"Limited vision" is something that has precedent in past Ultima games and would add value to the overland map

As far as "cheap" feel - I also think that they can do better - but I disagree with the cloth texture; that looks fine

In terms of "discovery" ... in every world there are known places - I imagine its no different in New Britannia ... this map is also a testing map - look at all the new player housing towns - everything has to be visible at the moment

If they add a "discover" feature that would be cool too - but if the concept is - this is a "map" and here are known "places" ... I have no problem with that ... no fog of war (I'm not playing Civ or any other strategy game)

 

Didnt remember but, OMG! Tons of "weird" style of houses there! And yes, the normal 3D map was fine.

 

Has nothing to do with 'Civ' or 'other strategy games', it has more to do with exploring. What is the point of exploring if every interesting place has a neon sign saying, "Here I am come check me out." I would prefer to get out there and not know what's in store. I agree that towns should be on the map, when traveling, you'd see them from a distance anyway and most people will have a basic sense of where civilization is around them but this is another way that the 'fog of war' makes it more realistic since when traveling you wouldn't see the town until you came within a certain distance of it. You might have a general sense of the direction it is in but until you've actually been there...

In any case, I am the type of person who does not like to read the end of the book first and putting everything interesting on a map so that it is immediately visible takes away from the game in a big way for me. Finding, discovering and exploring is something that I really enjoy.

 

So are you asking for an experience like ultima 5? You always had limited vision ... didn't quite know where you were going necessarily

Fog of war is - show landscape - once you have past over it as opposed to - having a certain level of per hex "vision"

I agree that exploring and discovery is essential to these games - my BIG reservation - when I hear fog of war is the "cloud" mechanism ... I don't think it's appropriate for this game

I can't remember all the Ultima games; especially 1-4 but did we not know points of interests with our cloth maps?

And there were still discoveries to be made - I think that "show" on pass/stand near or on a hex would work fine ... that is to say - you map "fills" - with certain "unknown or secrete" locations once you discover them

 

The map in Ultima I-III were not filled in at all:
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ultima_I_Maps_of_Sosaria
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ultima_II_Map_of_Earth
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ultima_III_Map_of_Sosaria

Ultima IV-V only showed Britain and some landmarks, not even all of the cities:
http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ultima_IV_Map_of_Britannia

It was not until Ultima VI and beyond that the maps were well marked.

I do agree that adding features as you come across them on the overland map (unless they are specifically hidden, such as the Liches Tomb perhaps) would be best. I'd really like the tomb and caves to be placed within a small overland zone, requiring you to actually get to the entrance, instead of start inside the caverns.

 

Sounds good to me.

The 'unpopulated' map could show for the rest when not near something.

 

I do hope that panning and zooming are added at some point. I'd like to zoom just a little further out on my big monitor. Plus, since it is a map, there is no reason to restrict the view to just one location. We can't exactly pathfind across water.

 

Already in!

 

I have a question. When we 'zone' into hexes on the overland map, and it is, say, a hill, or a forest. The area that loads for that particular spot on the map... will that always be the same, or will it be randomised each time?

For me, it would be very odd to 'explore' a hex two or three hexes out of Owl's Head, and then enter that same hex again only to find that it's completely different. This would, I think, be a bit disorienting and likely kill any real sense of it being a cohesive and immersive world.

However, if the areas connected to those hexes stay the same each time you enter them, then this would at least give some sort of consistency to it, and you know when you 'zone in' to that certain hex what the terrain is like.

Part of exploring and discovery for me is learning and memorizing the terrain, and getting a feel that you know where you are going eventually. If it's random each time, that just kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing.

 

I've only gone in and out of the same zone a couple of times but when I did, I did not notice it change. I'll have to check this out tonight though to be sure. Good call.