Overland Map Poll [UNOFFICIAL]

Hey guys! Just so you all know, Chris Spears commented on the new map and our reaction to it here:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ations-of-21st-century-rpgs.8765/#post-152423

I've also quoted the entire post below.

 

Bah, it's just a cunning Portalarium scheme:

Had the original overland map been in R4, we would have bitched about how awkward and unpolished it was. So they “shoehorned” this new “paper-inspired” map into the game instead, knowing most of us would hate it. Now, when they re-implement the original map, we'll be so relieved it's back we won't complain about its failings when we “play” it in R5.

Ah, if only that were true...
_

 

Sort of like the "New Coke" campaign ?

Yeah, right...

 

Yeah I wish this was the case. But who knows maybe all these complaints about this new map will make them realize that despite the original maps issues it would still be a far better choice then this new map! One can hope right?

 

Well, I quite like the new paper style map.

In some ways I find it kind of weird that people are wanting more realism in something that's very unrealistic in the first place; ie: depicting fast-travel between locations in a semi-out-of-game way. Why does that need realism?!?

To me, the new style visually says to the user, "You have now taken a step outside the game world. You are now seeing an altered reality (which is why it looks like pages from a storybook), in relation to your travelling around the map..."

So... yeah. I think that's what the devs are trying to convey and not only do I "get" it, I also quite like it...!

 

It's not that much about realism, it is about exploration.
Take the old Ultimas for example. Let's take Ultima V. It had a similar system like SotA. You had an overworld view as well as let's call it a "scene view". It was a dual scale system.
When you were inside a scene, for example a city, you walked around, talked to people, bought items, solved quests and fought against monsters.
When you left the scene, you were transported to the overwold view, but it was not a map. It was a zoomed out version of the world. In this view you could explore the world. Although it was a zoomed out view it was still the same world and it looked like it as it used the same graphics style.

Now in the R4 version of SotA you cannot explore the world. You maybe can explore the scenes, but when you leave them, you are not transported to a zoomed out view of the world, you are transported to a map. There is no point in exploring a map. There is no point in walking around on a map. Fast travel - yes. Looking where you are - yes. But not exploring, as you do not see the world, you see a map.

So if they use the map instead of a zoomed out view, they take away the whole aspect of exploring the world. Something which I find very important in an RPG.

 

You know, it likely has a lot to do with the the way the server side of things is set up to decrease its overall load. IE: The world is split up into all these instanced hexes, they are probably an easier load on the server than trying to 'remember' an entire game world, and everyone moving through it at any given time, simultaneously. If it was just a single player game, the same sort of decisions wouldn't have to be made as your PC would only have to remember you and your actions.

 

This. So very much this.

 

But it wasn't an MMO. And that, to me, is the big thing at hand. In a single player RPG, you move from place to place, adventuring, investigating, etc. Always moving forward. Seldom do you go backwards in single player RPGs and you certainly don't go backwards with anything remotely approaching the amount of back and forth you do in MMOs. I think the devs are conscious of how much back and forth, through the same land, we will be doing.

Hence the different style. They know when we run back up and down the same road for the 500th time, we certainly wouldn't be excited at looking at the same landscape so we're getting a system that bypasses it.

 

Its not an single player vs. MMO thing. There are plenty of MMOs which force you to walk those roads, giving you LIMITED quick travel, usually to specific hubs only.

 

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. See my post a few posts back; there could well be a server load reason for why they're chopping up the map like this.

It certainly makes sense that the less server load, the less server fees there would be. And, if they are seeking to run the game for a limited expense on the server side, that could very well play into the design.

 

On the other hand one could argue that SotA also wants to appeal to the single player fans with the SP modes, the quests, storyline etc.

And you would have the same mechanics with the map. The back and forth would take place on the map, too and I cannot think that it is more fun with this map style than with a 3D zoomed out world. If they want to bypass looking at the same landscapes then they would have to include an auto travel system which would work on a 3D zoomed out world view as well.

 

But again, if they are chopping up the game world to lessen server load, ie: they can't have a seamless world that you can just run from one end of to the other with so many logged in, that MMO decision affects the single player side.

In the reverse, sure, we could likely have a seamless world run on our individual PCs when in single player mode, but when we switched to the multiplayer world, the world couldn't be portrayed the same way because of server load...

 

I do not agree with your contention. Ultimas were notorious for being non-linear and involving backtracking and revisiting various towns over and over.

 

I'm not opposed to an overhead map that looks like a map. I am opposed to one that looks like the children's board game "Candy Land". I don't think any amount of polish can make this map salvagable. I say start over with either a more realistic style overhead map - or better yet, go back to the 3d version that they had shown us from the beginning.

 

But even if you did that, you still finished the game and it ended in a -- relatively -- short time. MMOs, as I keep pointing out, are a totally different beast. People are still going back and forth YEARS later.

 

Well one plus is that it is starting to remind me of another epic gaming map of youth - but possibly with more potential:



Personally I wouldn't mind either direction, as long as a lot of hefty upgrades are performed to whatever is chosen. I wasn't the #1 fan of Roosterteeth style with its sad looking dungeon entrance. It has a lot of potential but I'd think it would require larger reserves of money to get to where I thought it would already be (could very well be wrong). The R4 incarnation looks pretty rudimentary, not surprisingly given it is new, but maybe easier to implement?

Anyway, a year later, and after Dom Jon's original video highlighted the passion of the community for this aspect of the project, I was also surprised that not much had been done. It's kind of disappointing, but rather than go on and on here... I'll just wish the team good luck in sorting this all out.

 

I never got tired of walking back and forth in UO since 1997, thats 17 years almost without break. And the graphics are not even as remotely impressive...

Most people I played with prefered to walk than recall most of the time. Many even prefered to walk than actually run...

I agree exploration is half the fun...

 

I think I would be interested in both styles. The paper map version would be great for fast traveling between places. But some sort of zoom in command that resembles what was previous shown in the demo videos. This way it doesnt destroy the immersion aspect of exploring new areas and/or seeing what is going around you in a "n" Hex radius. For example, if you acquire supplies and want to get back home to brew that new batch of ale as quickly as possible, you can choose the paper map to fast travel and get where you need to. However, because of this choice, you didnt realize that a town between your current location and your final destination just came under attack. However if you were using the more zoomed version of the map and you come within "n" Hex radius of that town, you can decide if you want to help instead of brewing that ale. Might be tricky to program.

 

If that's how you like to play it - great - but you can't possibly think that's the view of a mainstream gamer in 2014, however?

ie: It's not a reason why we shouldn't be exploring different paths (no pun intended).

Even people who were there in earlier Ultimas are open-minded about something new. I know I am and I can't be the only one.