Petition tochange the dual-scale map in Shroud of the Avatar to a monoscale map

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. Lordy

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    *Signed*
     
  2. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Sure, the loading is neccessary but it could be "hidden". I would love if they had a transition from map view to scenario view like zooming down, then a small loading which could be hidden by fog clouding your view and then you are in scenario view and zoom a bit further down on your hero. This would feel much more "natural" and wouldn't break immersion that much than just having a short loading time in map view and suddenly you are in third-person mode.
     
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  3. Jibbon

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    @relExpo

    ?the feeling and experience of a game not only depends on what you can do in it, it also depends on thing you could do even if you don?t!

    All things said so far about dual-mapping are based on the ?none-server-system?, instancing and reducing cost. So, i think that Instances ?poping? up on the private pc of the players will come with lag and capacity issues?reducing the multiplayer experience massively down.

    For solo player gaming this might be working, but please don?t compare this with the game experience of the openworld solo ultimas and ultima online ? those games lived from there open world play. And yes, you have to walk for hours to reach locations but you were glad owning a horse later on?and more later on you were glad to have the skill for rune travel ? all those things were hard to gain gamecontent but they bind you to your avatar like none other game till now.

    ?by the way, walking or riding to a preferred location was not stupid timewasting, there were things like hunting, collecting resources, killing monsters?and tons of more to do.
     
  4. Lordy

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    i agree Jibbon,
    i do understand a dual scale map is great for cost reducing reasons (all those empty spaces need work to be filled with stuff). But in terms of immersion, imo spending like one hour...roaming around...browsing people Npc's, Killing monsters, etc...it ?s something no other game was able to deliver after UO.

    Of course this game is not UO, and it seems it's not an MMO as we are used to understand modern MMO's....though what i'd really don't want it's a Sort of Heroes of Might and Magic with zoom opportunities.
     
  5. Owain

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    Well, I have played MANY MMOs, starting with UO. In the MMO I am currently playing most, Lord of the Rings Online, if I have to go any distance at all, I am always pulling open the world map to see where I am going. I also would do this with GW2. To me, the high level travel map is just a easier, more intuitive interface for doing this than continually having to pull up a separate map in order to orient myself. Hopefully, when we drop into the 3d instance in SotA, there will be more than enough territory for us to explore and to wander through.
     
  6. Urganite

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    Between all of you, I honestly have to admit I prefer the monoscale map, not just because it's more familiar and has been well done in games like Dragon's Dogma (which is deserving of all kinds of praise, even if it's not the game that I think it was meant to be), but also because as a player, I do actually realize that the dual scale map is in actuality smaller. Thinking about it, it's not like dual scale maps are unfamiliar, I've played more RPG's with dual scale maps than without, from the time I was very little until I was...well, my age.

    One thing that sticks out for me, as someone who wants to play a crafter even, meaning I won't necessarily even go anywhere at all, is the fact that in a dual scale map, there's very little "game" between you and wherever you're going. It's interesting when people settle in one area and stick around, be part of the community, build it up, make it nice. I've been writing in other topics about regional market segmentation in the game economy, and it's the same with regional player segmentation; the segmentation provides opportunities to connect as people stay near where they already are. Fast travel does for multiplayer games what cars do for real cities. Urban sprawl, centralization, small players are pushed out as people can travel to the biggest and best places for adventure, commerce, etc. That said, I can think of some better ideas than what a true monoscale map would offer...that's for another thread.
     
  7. slandrew

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    I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this but I think it should be optional. There should really be no reason for you to spend an hour walking from one town to another if you're just performing a menial task or wanting to meet up with a friend.

    I know a lot of you don't quite grasp or agree with this because most of us on the forums right now are more hardcore RPG/MMORPG gamers and really want to be fully immersed. But by just saying that there will be one 3D world alienates a large portion of potential gamers. A lot of people just don't want to spend that kind of time waking. They have jobs, kids, real lives, other hobbies and when they devote an hour to play the game they want to play it how they see fit.

    Now should the more hardcore players have a competitive edge on the less hardcore ones? Absolutely. At least when it comes to the rate of progression and combat ability. Do you really need to play for 50 hours a week to be able to make a cake though? Or be able to travel to the local graveyard and fight a horde of skeletons?

    I remember the fully immersive feel of Ultima Online and wandering for lengthy amount of times (especially on the open seas) really brought that home to me. With every MMORPG I've played the worlds get bigger and bigger yet they seem smaller and smaller and I really do not like that.

    In my mind's eye I envision both a full world 3D map and a dual scale option where you could cycle between the two of them. Do I know if this is possible? Nope. But this would be the obvious solution to me.

    In conclusion: I hope they reconsider the route they go with the map. I think the way to satisfy the most about of people is with the option of a mono or dual scale map. Just manage those options with varying degrees of risk/reward and make it seem fair to the gamers and it is theoretically possible.
     
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  8. Shadoweaver

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    I have to admit coming first from the Final Fantasy series to Ultima 7 and then UO that I enjoyed the monoscale map system more. That being said I have to agree with what other players above me have said. With modern 3D games Fallout 3 Skyrim etc I found myself walking to whatever location 1 time on average and after that fast traveling. Now that I think about it the same was true for UO. Once I had a marked rune for any place I almost never walked anyway. Having a horse was more for fashion than for practicality.

    Once I have considered these points I have decided to support the DEVs vision 100%

    Perhaps people are getting caught up in the idea that any point on the map they travel to will have a strict and small boundary around it eliminating any chances to stumble upon things. It is important to keep in mind that there is no reason why a town or village can't have 4 or 5 times explorable land around it than the city itself. It means that any hex on the map can expand exponentially as the DEVs see fit without having to adjust much of the world at all.
     
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  9. Vyrin

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    slandrew - here here on saying that you shouldn't necessarily have an advantage if you have tons of real time to spend walking. Shaoweaver - here here for once again pointing out the most games have fast travel or an overhead map for fast travel already - why? because most people want to give up walking at some point. And so, in good games this must not be giving up immersion. The dual scale is somewhat similar to fast travel.

    I think the developer's have spoken in the latest video - perhaps the discussion could move on to discussing the fine points of the options presented.
     
  10. Owain

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    One issue to consider is economics. If the Kickstarter raises $10 million, the devs might have the budget to create and populate a world all in one scale. Nothing comes free. At the projected level of funding Garriott is expecting, this is what he thinks he can deliver. I will defer to his far greater experience when it comes to game development.
     
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  11. TheJefu

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    Let LB create his vision his own way. That is the reason we have his special genre of game in the first place.

    Lobbying a developer to not only change his design, but change his vision for the game is a sure way to get a mediocre game. Treat it as fact that should a game be developed that satisfied all of our demands, none of us would be happy with the end product.

    I know that many of us have experienced the epic open world that was Ultima Online; we've seen the glory of Azeroth and we've all been to Skyrim. Those games aren't going anywhere.

    Have faith in the team to create something original. Then in ten years from now we can post on the forums of the next game asking for it to be like this one.
     
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  12. Khumash-Gor

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    I do not think this needs to be changed to monoscale. What has been said to be planned sounds quite nice for quick and fast content updates.
     
  13. Ned888

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    I'm good with the dual scale map.
     
  14. Minoc

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    Sorry but I support and want a dual scale map.
     
  15. urizen

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    One of my most favourite things to do in UO is to run aimlessly exploring, I fear without a monoscale map this all encompassing depth will mean I have less feels.. just another "rpg"
     
  16. Maximusas

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    I love the idea of dual scale. Ultima 5 was the first game I played on a pc... And the first RPG that I Truely lost myself in after playing others in the genre such as Ishar and Dungeon Master on the old Atari ST. Ultima 5 was dual scale and I loved it. Don't get me wrong I loved The mono scale of Ultima 7 and Oblivion/ Skyrim... But isn't that the point of this game... It's trying to be original. Why copy the best and be compared positively and negatively against that benchmark. Slightly off topic... I just wish I didn't have to fork out $140 to get the map shipped to UK... Seriously torn whether to up my pledge from 2nd responder to explorer. Decisions, decisions argh!
     
  17. Enceladus

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    Vote for monoscale map.

    I want to be able to walk, ride or fly at the one scale throughout the world. Not enabling this is a retrograde step for the RPG and MMO genre.

    Quick travel methods between key points is also a must.

    How it's done technically within budget is the challenge for the designers and developers. Go to it guys!
     
  18. Clajo

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    I have played many games of both types and I have found immersion in both.

    Although, I feel that with the right minds behind it, monoscale has the potential to vastly outperform dual scale.
     
  19. stile

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    Im very happy with the way they are doing the maps, as its being done.
     
  20. redfish

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    Personally, I prefer mono-scale, but from what I gather the developers have decided to go with dual-scale for certain development reasons so I'm not going to bother really petitioning this point.

    I would *prefer* in-game travel to take a really long time, by the way. That would require you and your party to set up camp and live off the land, and have a grand old adventure going from one place to another. Most adventure in stories happens in the wilderness when you're on your way somewhere, not when you get to your destination. Life is what happens when you're planning other things, etc.

    So if they could make a mono-scale map huge, very huge, to address concerns with space for things like housing, etc., but it ended up lengthening travel time, I would support it.
     
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