Pets, Taming, and Ranching.

The problem with the UO example is that UO had what? A 700 point skill cap? and 100 of that had to go into taming. So by themselves the tamer isn't as strong as a purer PvP build and even still I've heard more than my fair share of stories of dragon abuses in UO and I saw them being drug around all the bleedin' time. Could hardly go into town without seeing a few dragons on the streets.

SotA won't have that skill cap issue according to early statements by RG and team (which have yet to be revised). We can't assume that a tamer in SotA can't be just as strong in PvP as anyone else without a pet.

 

Margard...Thanks for adding that thing from Darkstarr.

I am happy to see that lions=hard. To ensure my happy bubble is not burst I am going to believe that means lions will be the top of the tamable per food chain. I certainly don't want to believe that they will follow the taming difficulty structure of UO as I always thought it was seriously flawed. - taming bulls to GM and then being able to tame a bunch of dragons or wyrms -

I hope they keep all tamable creature a reasonable size as well. You could say it was a...pet peeve..of mine in UO when you're trying to do something and some jerk tamer saunters in with 2 dragons and now takes up 3/4 of you screen.

Ya. So obviously at this point combat pets are in. Uggghh. Ok. I hope they at least bring an element of strategy to the pets. Like primerib talked about in wow. Different pets would stand out based on either play style or opponent or both. So there would be no top pet like UO, several pets would be "hard" to tame and each would have situations where they would excel. This would have the added benefit of not seeing everyone walking around with the same pet type.

Would control of the pet be direct or as a companion would they act on their own to a certain degree?

 

Few points - I would like pets to serve other uses beyond combat as I have suggested in the first 3 pages of this thread. I'm not a dev so I don't know if the things I suggest are viable game wise when you consider the current design of this game. But I feel that auxiliary pets (gathering as well as combat) would add a unique aspect to a pet system from a resource gatherer and overall adventuring perspective. [Part of this as to do with moving away with the radar mechanic that I have seen used to gather resources but that's another discussion ]

As for combat - I'm also in agreement that pets should play a tactical role above all else (just my opinion) ... and because I want the game to be believable, engaging and fun ... I would like pet attacks/how they engage in combat to make sense

I personally would prefer if they hand a mix pet system where small animals would only do single attacks on command ... Simply because they would be killed instantly by a hit from a sword, axe etc. (I gave some examples in previous pages of the thread)

and animals such as lions, bears, buffalo that can physically take the damage engage in combat like an NPC companion would (but as stated before I would hate for this to be the only use for a pet ... it's unoriginal/boring and can lead to game imbalances as others have mentioned [both for single player experience and PvP])

I've never played WoW so I can't comment on that

 

I think the idea of pet abilities outside combat is a cool one. Gathering is the easy target, but I'm sure there is a lot more room to expand that.

Like IRL using pigs or dogs to sniff out truffles.

Certain animals would be a able to lead you to/find certain gathering items that might be otherwise impossible or hard to find. So the smaller non-combat pets are more than just for fun they actually have economic play based benefits.

Ie You tame a woodpecker and use it while tracking down a valuable bug that lives in tree bark and is used in alchemy. Tamed storks increase your fishing ability etc.

Certainly think there is something to that line of thinking. Tamers could train those pets and then sell them to crafters.

 

Agreed

 

Originally 100/100

Currently 720 skill points / 120 taming limit

They made it worse with legendary skills. You could only have 6 maxed skills instead of 7.

It helps prove your point more about skill points and skills.

 

I still don't see the problem. There will be a maximum set of skills in this game. They've said many times that nobody can be master of all things.

All they need to do is create several skills for tamers. Hopefully tamers can be more versatile than they were in UO. Didn't see many warrior tamers in UO because you were either a mage (number one answer on the board) or you were a bard.

It would be nice to have a true ranger class that has ranged weapons but also has some magic and all the taming skills including some kind of veterinarian skill that uses bandages. The reason they won't be as powerful at hand to hand combat as a pure warrior is because they will have to spend some skills in the taming skills, whereas a pure warrior will be able to get the skills he needs and maybe a few extra defensive skills that makes him hardier.

It just seems like you want to argue against dragons for the sake you don't like dragons as a pet. That's fine you have your opinion. However they can make it balanced, and they ought to build the game to what the majority of the people want. ...Yes I know how can you determine a majority from these forums blah blah blah.... I don't plan on being a tamer, but I am willing to bet that people would come unglued if the best thing they could tame is a tiger.


Edit: oh yeah and the secret mystery tameable monster is a mongbat. That would be fun.

 

To be more precise what they said was people wouldn't have time to master all skills.. which is why I've said on occassion that I'm skeptical.. as some of us have more time to play than others. It's the number of skills plus skills being added that is/was intended to be the main reason why you couldn't master it all.. and a great number of those skills won't be combat related.

You can bet that hardcore PvPers will eventually master every PvP skill that they find useful to their play style for their ultimate PvP character build. Adding non-combat related skills won't be a hinderance to them. Ok so not everyone is into taming but there will always be those would take every possible advantage too.

Either way you look at it though.. PvP is a big deal.. PvE is a big deal.. striking the proper balance for any pet that can be used in combat.. is a big deal.

 

Oh well. You might have a valid point there. That will be interesting to see what they do with that.

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On another note....

Many people brought up special abilities or special skills associated with types of pets. There seems that some people think of the Dragon as being the cool pet for a tamer, but there are so many more pets out there that could be useful for players in the game.

A direwolf would make a great pet for instance. The problem is that we are so accustom to Dragons and supernatural pets in MMOs because of the ever increasing exponentially powerful levels, and the monsters we face would kill a wolf really fast. In a sense that could still prove true in SotA. If on the other hand say your pet (wolf or whatever) adds a defensive bonus to the avatar, or you have an imp pet that adds a bonus to your intelligence and focus recovery... and then again you have a pet dog or wolf that not only can bite the opponent but can grab a hold of them and it roots them in place until they can shake the dog off of their arm.... on and on... an eagle can act as a non-combat pet but the tallons could do a bit of damage, but say the eagle's skill is to blind the enemy while you fire arrows or bolts at the guy.

Personally I'm not going to be a tamer. I know lots of people want dragons but I have to admit it would be nice if not every tamer walked around with dragons in the towns. Why not have these normal pets, and some supernatural pets too.
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Conclusion:

Mmaybe there can be ranger type tamers (only standard pets), and then the more focused supernatural type tamer that can have the dragon. Say it only takes like three additional skills to be able to tame animals, but if you want to go the supernatural dragon tamer route then you have to learn an entire skill tree like learning all the shield skills or learning all the life magic spells and skills. So those who want to have dragons and other supernatural pets would have to spend a third or half of their skill points learning those abilities.

 

I don't know about this, what's the point of making a whole skill tree and use "third or half of their skill points learning those abilities" for supernatural beings ... I'm not for this.
In my opinion it's incorporated into our regular taming skills or not at all ... no need to gimp a player just because they want to tame ... I'm fine if SoTA prioritizes their pets for gathering, scouting, including strategic battle skill appropriates to animals ... however to have a pet system that is relegated to a cosmetic add due to PvP balancing concerns would be extremely disappointing.

Though I would like a dragon, I would like it even more if SoTA created their own supernatural creatures unique to SoTA (that would address balancing. lore and player taming satisfaction concerns)... with that said if you can find it in you hearts to include something that resembles the Cockatrice, that would be fun!

I'll keep on making the point that pets should be creatively created to do more than battle; and when they do engage in combat that they play a strategic role [not just a meat shield / or meat wall (dragon)]

 

How is it (to use your word) "gimping" to have a skill tree dedicated to taming supernatural creatures? If you can have a dragon how does that make you weak? If you can be a full warrior or complete mage, and also can tame then like Bowen said EVERYBODY will be a tamer to be competitive.

 

If the cost of introducing a dragon as a tamable creature is to create a dedicated skill three (in your words would require half or a third of your skill points) severely limits the character build process (gimp is appropriate when you consider that this is a classless system, I think these words apply as well ... anchoring, limiting or pigionholing) ... by doing this you create a tamer class ... if this was a class based game then it would be ok, but it is not

I don't need a dragon at the expense of my character build

I also want to say that I get the balance issues, but not everything has to be about PvP ... if pets serve a functional role for resource gatherers/hunters and scouting this game would already have a something to hang there hat on ... and pets would be more than eye candy or meat shields

As for battle pets - they should play a strategic and believable role - if incorporating a dragon messes with that, then i say don't introduce it rather than make a tamer class character build

at this point it seems that we are trying hard to get the dragon in to the game by sifting game mechanics around the idea of a pet dragon .... it does not make sense to me ... but then again as I've mentioned before I'm just a gamer so maybe I'm wrong and possibly the skill tree you speak about may have other benefits.

But I'm just one opinion .. I would hope that other folks interested in taming (possibly a dragon) would chime in ...

 

OH I see what you are saying.

Say if warrior skills take about 2/3rds of your skill points? (I'm just estimating) However if that's the case you could still learn the warrior skills and the taming skill trees instead of getting some of the magic resistance skills and buffs to fill out your warrior skills. Or in the case of a mage you can pick up all of the taming skills instead of picking up an armor skill tree to compliment your mage skills.

That's what I was thinking. Not to harm the tamer but make it so that it truly is a separate skill path (not class) but a skill path that causes one to think about either becoming a more specialized mage with armor, or warrior without picking up earth magic buffs because you chose taming as a major career choice.

So you could still have weapons or magic it's just that you won't get some of the complimentary skills that some warriors would like to get or focus on more weapons styles etc because you are more focused on handling dragons and vet skills.

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Although if you only pick up a couple of the skills in the taming tree maybe you can still become close to a complete mage with most of the armor skills too, or the warrior path... then you can have a dog or a wolf companion as well without much skill focus on taming.

 

I actually was expecting taming to have it's own skill tree. So far whats been revealed is Taming and fishing are forestry skills. What we don't know is if Forestry (and other gathering skills) Will have a skill tree to put points into or if we will simply put points in forestry thereby increasing our taming/fishing/wood gathering skills.

currently I see no advantages to putting points in a particular gathering skill, the way it's shown is you put points in survey, speed, quantity, quality and then you can gather whatever you want. So I'm not sure how all of that will work.

 

That's a good point. Maybe the forestry skills could allow for players to have simple normal animal pets, and they could create a combat skill tree for taming and managing high powered combat pets since a person with a dragon will be using the dragon as their primary form of combat not swords or magic.

 

Does taming need a skill tree...or do pets? Many games run it the other way. As the pet gets stronger, you unlock more possibilities.

 

It looks like Taming is covered by the (updated) Gathering - Forestry skill. If you want to tame something you need a Taming Collar and probably the Forestry skill, or having it at a higher level for a better chance at a successful taming. I think Taming just makes it your pet if it was a successful taming. What a tamed pet can do I don't know. (But I would like to know as I plan on making Taming Collars and then taming pets.)

I would think if we had any options to customize what the pet does or how well it does it, then the pet would get its own skill tree. Not something that should come from the player's skill trees. Maybe there will just be a few basic pet commands that may succeed or fail and would use the Forestry skill.

A slightly updated version of the post linked above:

 

You will need to specialize if you want to gather the higher / more rare resources. You can only dump so much into generalized skills, which is a jack of all trades type thing. To tame the biggest baddest creatures, for example, you'll need to dump points into Forestry. You can give some newbie the uber taming collars in the game, but without specialization, he won't be able to do much with it against higher / rare creatures. Same goes for other types of "resources" in the Gathering skill tree.

 

I would imagine that taming will get it's own "combat" skill tree some day as well. This form of taming shouldn't allow somebody to acquire powerful dragons since everybody should gain the Forestry skill if they want to be competitive as an adventurer/PvPer.

In fact even if a pet is a distraction or can cause you to break concentration while fighting that might be enough to give an advantage to a warrior or wizard. (without counting against any of that character's combat skills). I think we will see the most competitive players will have pets if it stays this way. It also means that Forestry might turn out to be a mandatory skill to be competitive.

 

My thoughts on taming magical creatures

We currently have a taming mechanic that requires the use of a leather collar

As it stands the quality of the collar and additional chemical enhancements increases the percentage of success

How I envision the taming of magical creatures and a summoning process to call our creatures

• We use magic to subdue creatures (a beam)
• We use magical collars to maintain a subdued state
  1. Magical collars can only be created by skilled tamers (high level/use skill points)

i. They apply magic to a generic (regular) caller

• The magical collar is a “beacon” and an active mechanism to maintain the subdued nature of the creature
• Collar takes damage

i. If the collar is broken in battle the creature will turn on the owner

• We summon creatures (Like Naruto we create a summoning bond)
  1. Depending on the strength of the creature they can return “home” if they take too much damage
• We pay tribute to the creature by providing a “snack” every time we summon the creature

Edit: the beam could be a life force drain - while the beam is active the creature being subdued is aggressive or attempts to flee ... if you are not skilled/animal is not tameable the animal/creature will flee ... if you are skilled - the animal will attack you - you would need to have another pet to protect you for the process to work