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Please remove teleport scrolls

Discussion in 'Release 32 Feedback Forum' started by Poor game design, Aug 13, 2016.

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  1. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    Just want to toss this out there. Even WoW, the game for the most casual players on the planet, has long cool-downs on transportation and is a lot more restrictive where you can teleport to. The fact that you can teleport to a single person with no effort in any location is definitely OP by any stretch of precedence.
     
  2. Baalice

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    Right, I can see that. I was talking more about availability. Even if I have to pay more, at least it's there on the NPC. I might not like it but it's better than not being able to buy any. Can they actually sell out in SotA? I remember how awful it was in UO, people would recall around buying out every vendor when they'd respawn and then sell them on their vendors for ridiculous amounts. You might get lucky and get there first but most times they were completely out. If NPCs didn't even carry them, I'd hate to think what might happen. Gathering them right now isn't feasible for just getting out for a quick adventure, it takes time, and I don't always have it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  3. kaeshiva

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    I'm assuming we'd have to tame our own horse and feed it
    This seems to be the general complaint is that people are teleporting far too often and not using the scrolls for their original purpose.
    A simple cooldown fixes this. Not sure why we're up to 8 pages talking about it lol.
     
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  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Like UO ?
     
  5. Drocis the Devious

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    If you told the developers that they would still be making this game 20+ years later LIKE UO, I don't think they'd be upset with that.

    Not really a good example for your side of the argument.
     
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  6. Drocis the Devious

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    NPC's don't run out of them (at least not yet), and I don't think they will unless perhaps the population of the game swells and the devs begin to experiment with that to reduce inflation. But for now I wouldn't worry about shortages.

    I think this is a reaction to a lack of knowledge on your part. It's actually very easy to get most of the reagents and resolve other gathering issues if you know where to look. But this lack of knowledge is TOTALLY understandable. I've been playing the game since the first release and been on the forums forever and I still have lots of questions about all kinds of things. The game isn't intuitive at all and to say there's a huge learning curve doesn't give justice to the amount of weird stuff you just have to figure out on your own most of the time. And that right there is the "worst" part of the game for new people. We're still in development, yes, but we do a horrible job as a game explaining how and why the game works like it does.

    The bottom line is that if you don't have a ton of time to play, you really have to try to do what is the most fun to you. But if you find yourself saying "I can't generate the kind of income I need to do that", then you're probably trying to do too much. First off, the game can be completed without ever buying any special armor. Seriously, if you wanted to you could walk around naked with no weapons and be fine, I'm almost doing that now. I have on just robes (no buffs) and for the longest time I used regular cloth shoes and no weapons, just magic. I was fine, but that's because I know what I'm doing.

    You probably hate every time I say that "I know what I'm doing" and I don't blame you. But that's the benefit of being here for so long and soaking up all the knowledge I could for 3 years in a non-intuitive game. I'm making over 10k an hour with no exploits because I know what I'm doing. I'm not worried about my chosen skill path because I know what I'm doing. I'm not having a hard time buying reagents or crafting or participating in the land rush because, yeah exactly. It's not pay to win, it's practice to win, and I've been here from the beginning - practicing. There are people that are better at this game than I am in some ways, but I'm better at the game than they are in some ways.

    I know this is off-topic, but here's my unsolicited advice to anyone having a hard time finding time. Stop trying to compete with ghosts. Have fun. Don't try to hold yourself up against players that are already GMing skills or that have entire cotton fields of land that they're running their own gold farming business out of. Just have fun, relax, and do what you like to do. If you can't do that without more money or without more time then you're probably trying to do too much. You're probably trying to wear fancy armor (you don't need it). You're probably trying to level up too fast (slow down, appreciate leveling at a steadier more gradual pace). You may be trying to become the next Walmart when you're not even ready to be the next Lemonade Stand (take time to hone your crafting skills, this game will be around long enough for you to get to skill whatever). You may be trying to be good at everything resulting in you not being very good at almost anything (You don't have to be Drizzt and wield two magical scimitars, just work on handling a sword and be as good as you can at that).

    I have to follow this same advice for my playtime, only I've leveraged my knowledge to optimize a lot of this over the first few weeks. I'm going back to work now and I'll have a lot less time overall to keep up with the digital joneses, so my progression and income will come back down to earth and I'll have to make better use of my time going forward. My knowledge isn't going to change that. So rethink what you're doing, and what you're trying to do, and good luck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  7. kaeshiva

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    I know you've been here a long time Drocis and I'm sure you know better than me, but I do know where to look for a lot of the reagents. Gather them every time I pass through said zones. The amount that you can get gathering is a pittance and nowhere approximates the amount you burn casting spells for an hour. I can burn through 100 mandrake root in one good hour of fighting, sometimes faster. Sure, I could go gather them at 6 per plant (about what I average) Same with nightshade and garlic, I know where they grow, I could zone in and zone out and get them over and over and spend more time doing that than actually fighting anything. I know a few spots to mine sulfurush ash and could do the same. I could kill low lvl spiders with non-reagent farming spells and farm spider silk. I could even try and find those pesky hard to find oyster spawns (I know of like, 2 places where I've seen them) and get those.

    Completely disregarding that I may have to cast spells to clear mobs guarding these places, using the reagents I'm trying to gather, you'd spend as much time gathering stuff to allow you to fight as you would fighting.

    I don't think trying to use the spells in the skill tree to be a mage is trying to 'do too much'. I think its a minimal requirement of gameplay. If these reagent nodes were more plentiful or gave higher yield, I could see a market springing up around it to provide them for mages, but currently you just don't get enough of it.

    Agriculture may change this once fully implemented, assuming water becomes a renewable resource (fill that bucket up) and seeds can be obtained as part of the growing process, though the black pearls and sulfurush ash (two of my highest burned up reagents) are still going to be a problem.

    I'd welcome a world in which reagent harvesting was viable and they didn't exist on the NPC, but that would require a dramatic (dramatic!) increase to yield and availability of said items, a dramatic reduction in burn rate, or a dramatic increase in the power of magic to balance out the amount of effort it would require. Who'd be a mage otherwise?
     
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  8. Wintermute of CoF

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    Yes, and all the other passes. It's actually more straightforward now than it used to be because you don't even have to open the gates to get out.

    Don't go to the nearest one, go to the one by the exit.

    I don't see how taking less than a minute to travel wherever you want is economy breaking, but taking 5-10 minutes isn't? What difference do those 4-9 minutes make to the regional economies?

    If what we're after is a regional economy I think what we really need are much bigger regions, teleport scrolls or no.
     
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  9. Drocis the Devious

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    That's a very good question, and I have a very good answer for you.

    1. Because while I'm slogging through a control point and walking on the overworld map, you're already doing business somewhere else. That puts you 5 to 15 minutes ahead of me, and this gets exponentially more important the longer you and I play. What might be 5 minutes today could be 100's or 1000's of minutes over the course of a full year. That's an advantage that I can't complete with unless I'm also using the teleport scroll in an abusive way.

    2. Because the regions are set up in part to be "controlled" with control points. They're not supposed to be easy to cross they're supposed to have varying degrees of challenge depending on what's going on at the time. Right now they don't function the way they are designed to and they're kind of boring and annoying. But even when they're really cool and more dynamic, some people are still not going to like them because they just want free travel. Unfortunately that is not a good reason to have unrestricted teleport scrolls.
     
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  10. Greyfox

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    You realize sleeping and toilet breaks put you further behind the power curve.

    We should ban coffee, amphetamines, and buckets.

    Want to know why a bucket? For all the crap I am reading to support a bad idea.
     
  11. Wintermute of CoF

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    I'm in the UK, chances are I'm 5-6 hours ahead of you already, the 5 to 15 minutes is not that significant.
     
  12. Snazz

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    Pearls are the only PITA to farm and they happen to be used in crafting recall scrolls. Like posted earlier, this is 15 notches below UO recall/gating.

    WoW had warlock summons where you could bring an entire raid unit in lol, so the comment about that game is unfounded
     
  13. Drocis the Devious

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    I don't think you're following me. :)
     
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  14. Greyfox

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    That decided it, moving to Australia. 12 hours ahead of most.
     
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  15. Baalice

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    Do tell :). You're right, I don't know where to look. Gathering is not fun for me right now. I don't mind being a part-time herbalist but I want to be a full-time mage. Any help in that regard would be appreciated. PM me if you feel that type of information is spoiler-ish.

    I don't really want to use weapons at all and my armor is definitely not buffed. Combat doesn't really bother me at all. I'm hoping the game doesn't force me to use a sword or something. I can use a staff (not a fan of wands) but I think a real mage doesn't need a 'focus' item to channel magic. Even if they gave us an item that wasn't visible in order to have to have something to repair, I'd love to channel through my hands, but that's just me. I found a pointy wizard hat but hey, where did you get robes?? This pants and shirt combo is getting old. Not magey at all.

    Not at all. I've lurked since the beginning but no, not played. I knew I couldn't deal with wiping every so often. I wanted to just wait until persistence. That has put me at a disadvantage, yes, but I'm pretty good at getting up to speed. There are definitely things I'm learning because, yes, it's non-intuitive. There are still other things I scratch my head at to understand the design.

    Actually, I'm not doing any of that :p. I stopped caring about what other people have a long time ago. Most MMOs require a lot of investment to be 'epic' and stay there and as I got older, that has become irrelevant to me. I'm not going to wear goofy looking epic armor (other games, I mean) just because it's 'best in slot'. My character always comes first. It's the old school D&Der in me. No fancy armor here. I'd love for it to be sparse, like a true mage. Some of the leveling mechanics still escape me so I'm not really caring where my skills are at the moment. As long as I'm working the different schools of magic, I'm good. I'm hoping I don't have to specialize too much. In D&D, I used to have a necromancer and a conjurer but most times I prefer a generalist. Not sure if that will be viable here. Lastly, running a vendor. That's beyond low on my radar. I really don't care too much about it. I'll participate in my local economy, sure, but I doubt I'll be getting rich off of it and that's fine by me. It's closer to a role-playing mechanic for me.

    So, I do appreciate the advice. Some things you're preaching to the choir on but as far as being able to make 10k an hour? Not even close. I feel pretty aimless at the moment actually. I'm still getting used to the small part of the world I'm in. My biggest concern is getting reagents. Right now, I can buy them. Gathering has been somewhat painful. I'm purely a magic user but also an alchemist (with some tailoring), so I seem to burn them faster than I can get them.
     
  16. Baalice

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    This would be a worst case scenario for me. If I have to zone and re-zone, farming reagents, that tells me something is fundamentally wrong with reagent availability. I'm essentially working around it doing something 'gamey', not to mention incredibly boring. In the end, yes, I'll have to waste lots of time gathering something that is just my 'fuel' for playing. Unfortunately, reagents are tied to crafting and therefore conflict with the economy. I'm no stranger to farming, I've been a Diablo nut since the first one came out. I'm currently playing Marvel Heroes and boy oh boy, do I know about farming. It's not fun but I knew going into those games, it'd be part of it. I accept it and still have a ton of fun otherwise so it balances out. If that were to happen here, I just can't see myself farming reagents. I'd have to go SP Offline. The problem is the part of me going, "Yo, doofus, you spent... "a lot" on this game and you're not going to try and get your money's worth of enjoyment playing online like you intended?!"
     
  17. Scoffer

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    After 8 pages of comments I haven't found a single viable legitimate reason to remove teleport scrolls.
    They don't hurt the economy, if anything they promote a regional economy because its easier to get places to trade. Not to mention the people that are making, selling, buying the scrolls or the people that are selling the ingredients to make them.

    What you are asking for is to remove a convenience and replace it with a time sink while people run around the map
     
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  18. languard

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    Oh for crying out loud, please, everyone, please use the phrase 'begging the question' correctly. It does not mean 'a question that begs to be asked'. It is a way of referring to circular reasoning.

    Q: Why will teleport scrolls ruing the economy?
    A: Because they are bad.

    That is begging the question. Thank you.


    Side note: Why do I keep reading posts that imply teleport/recall scrolls can be used encumbered? You can't use them if you are overloaded.
     
  19. Drocis the Devious

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    Doesn't that beg the question, who implied that? :)
     
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  20. Amber Raine

    Amber Raine Community Ambassador (FR)

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    Wow - Hot Topic! Just started on Saturday and already 9 pages long. The first post I wake up to is insanity and as much as I appreciate your style of insanity BDF... You may have fallen a bit far from the wall this time.

    Remove teleport scrolls? What exactly are you smoking?!? No, wait! Your right, remove teleport scrolls and give back the recall runes, recall scrolls, mark scrolls, and GATES!

    I just walked from Radio City on the far west side of Novia all the way to Owl's Head. It took me literally 5 minutes (not a lot of time). I did it in friends only mode - So i saw no one. several different loading screens (which is where most of my time was spent in)

    Now, take the teleport scroll. Takes seconds to cast while you emote constipation and one loading screen (which sometimes takes a long time to load in). Then dropped out of friends only and went to multi....

    Except for less then the number of loading screens. I see absolutely no difference and no harm done by the teleport scrolls.

    So, take the words as we hold true from the Church of the Dark Star - DBAD. Teleport Scrolls are *not* harming you or the game in any way!

    ~drops the mic and teleports out to her friends in another area~
     
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