Policy Change: QA Server and Release Instructions Early Drafts Open to All (starting with R45)

I actually have to second this because we can't lock something in again that has been public for month like Chris daily working blog or the other public dev blogs.
THAT would be devastating.

 

I think my point @Berek and @DarkStarr is the same one many people have tried to bring up through multiple times throughout unsorted comments throughout this announcement and I don't think they have been made clear without emotion, and I think i'm finally in a place to do so:

The devteam themselves have stopped using the Dev+ forums for what they were intended, slowly through the years of development. Newsletters, sneak peeks, game assets, developer blogs, and closer communication with the devs for Dev+ members.

The dev blogs are not starting in the Dev+ forums then being moved, they are sitting in the Town Hall section and available to anyone from the moment they are posted.

Devs are more active in the general forums than the Dev+ forums, basically avoiding that section and the purpose of them.

Newsletters are posted very quickly after they hit the Dev+ forums.

Sneak peeks at zones are not only posted in screenshots to the website, but livestreams are done. This isn't exclusive either.

Once the QA access and exclusivity is pulled from the Dev+ level backers, there really isn't anything left that the dev team is actually utilizing that was slated for us.

So I humbly ask once again, where exactly does this leave us? Because we have nothing now for the pledge level other than a cobwebbed forum section.

 

I have similar access in other games. This is what they do...

CrowFall
- Private forum section where people ask questions (and other players comment), but once a month or less, a developer rings in with a comment.
- A few of those questions are published publicly as part of the monthly developer video giving credit to the player who asked it.
This is cool because the players feel like they are being heard and may have a small ability to contribute in a positive way.

Boundless
- Once a month I get a private video call where several developers show me what they are working on and ask me for input.
This is crazy awesomeness. I even get to see a lot work that never makes the the game. Sometimes I get an email stating how much the developers enjoyed showing off their work. They raised the bar sky high.
But not scalable here, as Boundless does not have hundreds of investors with dev access. Still a little dog and pony show once a month in the form of a 15-30 minute video would be great.

CoE
- Uses discord to have group question and answer. Later many of those answers get made public.
I am ok with this. I feel like that is similar to CrowFall in a different form.

edit: One thing I really enjoy about the Boundless case is the insight in the development process. It is not all about features. I get to see the concept drawings and understand the perspectives that are taken in consideration. Much of which I would never have expected.

 

As a member of the Bug Brigade AND an owner of 2 Dev+ accounts and a third (non-Dev+) account, I have been following this thread for a couple days and have yet to reply until now.

On one hand, I initially felt slighted because I paid xxx amount of dollars to have this perk and now it will be available to anyone with even the lowest value account. I'm not mad that others are getting it, I'm just mad that I paid for it and others don't have to. In fact, I did it with 2 accounts just to be able to test things that involve 2 avatars to figure out.

On the other hand, this should eliminate the potential of people gaining an unfair advantage over others and will undoubtedly get more bugs discovered and hopefully fixed before the live build. I am in favor of both of these positives and feel that this change will help the game become better for it.

In the end, the more important thing to me is a better game, so I support this change.

However, I don't think we should ignore two negatives that it will also bring:

1. Just because more people can find bugs on QA doesn't mean that everyone will be reporting what they find! This opens up the possibility that more people who are looking for exploits will find and keep them to themselves... then abuse them once live. This is my biggest concern with this change. In a way, this might give more people an unfair advantage than the way it used to be!

2. There will be many more "incomplete" bug reports to sift through. Not everyone understands that bug reporting is more than just saying: "this is broken, please fix." A bug or exploit requires a bunch of details including: location, steps taken to reproduce, screenshots or vids, etc. in order to be able to just understand exactly what is wrong... and sometimes even more to be able to fix it (ie what you were wearing, what skills were used, etc.) So, more often than not, this leads to time wasted on either a Dev or Bug Brigader trying to figure out what's wrong and how it is happening. I fear that a wider population on QA might prohibit the efficiency of fixing bugs in that 1-2 week period before it goes live.

I know there will be many more positives because of this... but those two negatives will need to be addressed in some way when this happens.

For #1, @Chris will need to be on top of the metrics watching for the first week or so after a live build is up. If there are any huge spikes in gold/resources/xp/etc. that don't normally happen... it needs to be found FAST and fixed FASTER!

For #2, bug reporting needs to be more streamlined and/or more people to sift through the garbage (for lack of a better term). First and foremost, I think the in-game bug reporting icon should be MANDATORY just to be able to post a bug report unless it's a blocker that prevents you from logging in or staying in game to do so. But using the bug reporting icon in-game will copy a template with pertinent information to your clipboard so that you can paste it into your bug report. I know there are stickies about it in the bug forums that ask them to do it... but they simply ignore it. IMO, when QA loads to the login screen... there should be a popup box with an "OK" button that tells them to report all bugs using the bug report icon!

 

I'm really not sure why you keep saying this. Here's what happens when I try to log in to QA with one of my alts:

Note that this message also confirms that QA access is a perk of Dev+. Please stop with the "we never said it was" and the "you should have expected this" stuff and instead address your backer's concerns.

I can say from personal experience that even people who work at software companies struggle with this. My go to articles for educating co-workers about bug reporting are It Doesn't Work Is Useless and How to write a good bug report.

 

I think he meant anyone can purchase a bundle to get Dev+ access

 

But from R45, why should they?
That's the question.

 

Before the change

 

Yes.
But that doesn't change the question ^^

 

Berek was making that statement to in reference to before the announcement, anyone could gain access to the QA server by upgrading to an eligible Dev+ bundle. It wasn't like nobody else could get it.

 

Aren't those bundles with exclusive physical rewards? Seem to recall folks buying those for the rewards. And theres the whole private forum (which you COULD be discussing ways to utilize) and access to assets and documents and such.

 

And some people never paid for it. they got access by making meanigful contributions to the game for thier time. There are people who are Dev+ because they created music for the game or assets.

Some folks dont have the skills to contribute in that way, or dont have the money, and they wanna help anyways. non-dev+ have helped a ton by reporting bugs on the live server.

Now they will have the chance to report bugs BEFORE releases (and try out stuf fon QA like coto rewards, new skills etc). More eyes looking for bugs is better.

I think sacrificing Quality Assurance int he name of personal exclusivity is not benificial for the game overall. Instead, i think Tahru is ont he right track with brainstorming ways to better utilize the Dev+ space.

 

Maybe you should read my post at the top of that page regarding that "private forum" of cobwebs that we're concerned about.

 

Honestly, why should i?
It's not my job to come up with an idea how to use the dev+ forum (access to it is, btw, still part of the bundles in the store).
The idea for that should have been flashed out before r1 ever hit a PC.

 

I think this is a great move , the ones that disagree with it are not because of a loss of anything but the advantage it had.

Example - Months ago a topic appeared on the forum, I check the forums daily and people that didnt have QA or dev+ access were discussing it. I had talked with someone that day that had QA and dev access and was told that that topic was decided on long ago within the Dev access and Port group.

Example - A bug known to a person with Dev access but seemed to be a profitable one when asked if it was reported just said ( let them figure it out themselves )

So I think its great that there will be more eyes on the bugs and more feedback to make a better game, Also that the people without Dev access but QA access will be able to discuss changes if any and ideas before they are already decided on by those with Dev+ access and not make it to the forums for viewpoints before the decisions have already been made.

Economy damage I have no idea about, I am sure there is some and positive you have the tracking ability to know from where.

Again I think this is a great move for all..

 

smh

 

You know EMP, that's a bit too much white knighting here.
Maybe this all ins't important for you. But as you can see here are quite some people that hink this is important.

 

Also helps when it's being utilized the way it's supposed to be, the way the devs said they would, which was illustrated in that post you obviously just skimmed over.

 

K

Just thought yall would be interested in comming up with a solution. My bad.