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[POLL] R5 Updated Overland Map

Discussion in 'Release 5 Feedback' started by High Baron O`Sullivan, Apr 25, 2014.

?

What is your opinion on the updated R5 dual-scale overland map?

  1. I like it.

    50 vote(s)
    28.1%
  2. I do not like it.

    11 vote(s)
    6.2%
  3. Would like if improvements were made (read my post below)

    31 vote(s)
    17.4%
  4. Do not like - and do not think I would ever like - even with improvements

    23 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Revert back to the 3D map

    63 vote(s)
    35.4%
  1. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    I think once again you are being irrational.
     
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  2. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    I still think that is was not ok to change the overland map without telling us. Showing one thing and delivering another without telling the customers who already paid for what was shown to them is a no go for me.
     
  3. Rufus D`Asperdi

    Rufus D`Asperdi Avatar

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    So there are resource constraints. What other game features would you have them abandon to enhance the piece that they planned to be a simple mode of travel and nothing more?

    Actually, SWTOR is doing better than it ever has. Since the adoption of the F2P model, the number of subscriptions has actually increased in addition to the MTX. SWTOR is quite healthy.
    For the record, the community's objections are not universal. Should they decide to enhance the map for episode 2, well and good. However if there are resource constraints and addressing the overland map would mean the removal of other (more important in my humble opinion) features for episode 1 I would object.
     
  4. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    For one, up until now it was never said that the overland map would just be a simple mode of travel so that some fans thought it would be much more and imagined that it would be much more. It came as a surprise to hear that they intended it for travel and nothing more - which in my opinion was big mistake they made. In fact I remember Richard Garriott say in some video or interview that the plan would be to have a day/night cycle so that you know when to enter a specific hex to gather herbs that just grew in the night.

    And in fact for me and many single player fans travelling on the overland map is more important than housing, PvP, guild wars and other MMO things. So if you asked me, I would say they should abandon or cut some of those features.
    A hot tub for the housing seems to be more important than things you can do on the overland map? Ok, we know where the priorities are, don't we?
     
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  5. Rufus D`Asperdi

    Rufus D`Asperdi Avatar

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    And much of the PvP community was disappointed to learn that PvP would be Consensual Only, assuming that it would be the equivalent of Pre-Trammel Ultima Online...
    Something that can easily be implemented on the current map... Do you know that it shan't? What are the planned enhancements to the current map?
    I suspect the Hot Tub was able to be implemented with a very low level of effort, and served to raise money, and awareness. Do you know what percentage of the player base fits your description? How large a segment of the potential market do you and your like minded individuals represent? If the segment is large enough, then you will have a valid business reason to take to the development team with a substantive ROI.
    They're building an experience that is attempting to cater to a wide range of audiences. They have limited resources. They must make choices to make the game acceptable to the largest audiences within the constraints of those resources.

    Also, we're a very privileged audience... we're sitting on the production floor of the sausage factory... We're watching the phases of the development of a game that most development teams keep under tight wraps with extraordinary security. Things change during the early stages of development. It's part of the process.
     
  6. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    Even on the Kickstarter-website it says "Meaningful PvP that also minimizes griefing", which for me implies that it never was planned as being non-consensual.


    They haven't told anything about what is planned aside from that the map is meant as a means to travel only.

    Reaching a broad audience with a niche game is very hard I would assume. They would reach a broad audience with fantastic looking visuals and a more casual approach. But SotA is rather hardcore with no auto map, dialogues you write yourself and a cloth map for overland travel etc.
     
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  7. Rufus D`Asperdi

    Rufus D`Asperdi Avatar

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    Have you shown them your market research on this point?
    I'm sure they would be interested in it.
     
  8. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    I am no marketing expert I just see what happens in the genre. The Elder Scrolls Online sells millions of copies wheres a Darkfall Unholy Wars lives in a niche... just as an example.
     
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  9. Dhimmi

    Dhimmi Avatar

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    i guess it is not seen like that... I'm wondering. for how many people the map is a deal breaker?
     
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  10. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I think that is a fair assumption. There are some indie RPGs that are very hardcore and cater to an old school crowd (Dwarf Fortress is a fine example - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ ) but they aren't very successful or massively popular. Each iteration of the Elder Scrolls series has become simpler and more casual friendly, and they keep selling more copies than older, less casual versions.

    I'm not saying SotA should become a casual game, but hardcore RPGs do appeal to a niche market.
     
  11. Aegis159

    Aegis159 Avatar

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    Yeah the poll is a little too skewed.... There should be a "I like it, but the functionality needs improvement" Not "Would like if improvements made"...

    You have 1 positive and 4 negative choices... way to bias a poll there!!
     
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  12. High Baron O`Sullivan

    High Baron O`Sullivan Avatar

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    is everything.
    86 are not in favor, as compared to 29 who do like it. Interesting so far.
     
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  13. Gubbles

    Gubbles Avatar

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    This should be reiterated.
     
  14. High Baron O`Sullivan

    High Baron O`Sullivan Avatar

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    is everything.
    Reiterated? It is one post away.
    Either way the option for liking it exists. Doesn't change the fact that 3/4th of the people who have voted so far do not like the map in it's current format.
     
  15. Eriador

    Eriador Avatar

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    Anway we can check that very easily just looking the forum comments.Tons of regrets about the map.

    If this is the direction we will accept it... but the map will need a great/lot of work.
     
  16. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

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    The main problem with the map, is that it is not a map. You know, if you went from the exit of your hex to a cloth list of places to go, it would be exactly the same thing, not a map.

    A map is something you use to tell you where you are. You can plan a route with it, you can determine where you are in relation to things, estimate time to get places. These things are not accomplished with the cloth looking thing we have. For example, when you leave a hex, the only thing the "map" does for you from what I can tell is to allow you to choose what hex to appear in next. Distance, direction, routes.... they are all meaningless. A real map would help you decide what direction to go and what you might encounter along the way.

    When I placed my house in R5, I ended up in one of the new housing tracts. Every time I clicked on that hex, I would get lost searching for my place. A real map would be something I could look at while walking around, perhaps a gump on the screen that would pinpoint the location of my house and on which I could monitor and plan my route. RG probably wants us to walk through an area to get where we want to go, thus his strategy to only allow us into a hex at a single entry point. From there you have to walk or run to your destination. I get it. He probably did not like the UO model where you could mark a rune to an exact location and perhaps never walk a block away and perhaps seldom interact with others in your travels. This begs the issue about a map, though. I see no plan or discussion concerning a map.

    I know I am rambling, but I guess I am asking for a map to go along with the cloth travel device we are getting so far.
     
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  17. mdsota152

    mdsota152 Avatar

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    As a cartographer I must point out that, yes, it is actually a map… it’s a graphical representation of an area… what everyone is complaining about is “how” this map works… but in any case it is still a map. I can tell what's to the south, that Kingsport is to the east, ... I could complain that's it's written in runic and is not (easily) readable... but that's another debate....
     
  18. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    I'm really enjoying the new map they did a great job and it's a vast improvement. I do feel like the paper pop-ups need quite a bit of work possibly just make them 3D instead of 2D. They need full blown camera movement possible just have it be more of a click and drag style of moving the actual map around the current system for moving the map around isn't that great. More zooming would also be appreciated as well as unlocked panning around with camera. The new textures and animations are really good can't wait to see what changes in R6!
     
  19. Numa

    Numa Avatar

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    I just realized - people have been using the old 3D map like a dungeon map, which R5 sorely lacks btw. At the risk of placing an additional load on the dev team, would it be acceptable if we kept the current "drawn" map as a way of navigating overland to a point of interest then once you double click to enter a town/village/dungeon this turns into a 3D map which shows the areas you"ve already explored (unexplored areas will be shadowed).

    There doesn't seem to be a common area of compromise here - note that people who would like it with improvements ( 18.3%) are open to accepting the paper map as long as features are added. This makes the overall percentage of people who will accept the current map system at 43% ( 25% Like, 18.3% would like if improvements are made). The poll percentage structure as it stands is misleading.
     
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  20. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    Ahh the power of internet polls....just like stats they can be made to argue any point you want.
     
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