Portalarium Currency Sales (Please Read) -- (Dev) Replied

**********PERSONAL APOLOGY TO B*********


Dear Dev B,

I've given sincere thought to how I criticized you personally in this thread, and I was wrong! You have been attentive to this community, and I believe you really desire to create the best game possible. I sincerely hope you didn't take to heart anything I wrote. If you did then please don't.

I clearly overreacted and if you were bothered by this I hope this message reaches you. It may not always be possible to repair the damage that words can do sometimes. I sincerely hope the best for you and the rest of the team. So I extend my apology to you and anybody else that may have been upset by the way I voiced my opinion.


Sincerely,

Isaiah


PS. FireLotus if you are listening... if my reactions here did cause any negativity please forward this along to B because he did not deserve this harsh treatment. Thank you.

 

this is about the third time I have had to post this. I find it interesting that either you 2 would delibratly omit this or simply not scroll down to it

Kickstarter FAQ
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics

Ie your right, KICKSTARTER isn't responsible and wont take someone to court for deceptive conduct but YOU can.

 

@Sir Asguard

However the only time you can request a refund is if the creator can not finish their product and distribute their reward tiers? This is not time based either if the company shows transparency and posts product updates on kickstarter.com ? As long as it is a video game for pc developed by portalrium you could not get any refund, even if it was an FPS game, based on the accountability standards? However, if they made Teddy Bears instead of a PC game then you could get a refund.

 

Umm the game is one of the rewards, the game we paid for

Look your consumer protections maybe abysmal, ours aren't

Basically stop hoping you can get around the fact that some things are set in stone and were before we signed up or we wouldn't have signed up. Therefore if this doesn't suit you TO BAD

 

@Monkus

Actually users will usually be protected under local consumer laws. I'm not sure about USA, but I know EU and AU have pretty strong consumer laws that cover Sir Asguard's point in that if people are not delivered a product fit for use they are legal entitled to a refund.

http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/shops.htm

Obviously not applicable outside australia but it illustartes his point that consumers have rights as to what they paid for and what was promised. Most people will have a local law similar, but from what I understand, AUstralia's is quite effective (It was really exercised in the SimCity 2013 scandal as we can demand refunds from outlets as it was not 'fit for purpose' and follow slower, just just as effective channels with Origin as they trade in AU).

Kicksterter backing is emergent so hard to say how these laws apply, but I'm sure with all the big projects attracting investment we'll find out soon.

Hooray for off topic.

So, bout the currency sales ideas...

 

@Sir Asguard

Are you in AU when you refer to your consumer protection?

@Everyone Else

I didn't post the consumer laws in AU because I anticipate the need for them ^^

 

Yep, Australian

And I also am not posting this stuff because I anticipate any need for it, but rather just to highlight that there are obligations on the developers that no matter how loud some people call for certain things if they have been ruled out (or in) when we signed up then they are fixed and must be delivered.

 

While I personally hope there is no RMT involved with this game, the last thing I'd consider doing is suing them over it. If we the fans cannot support the devs in their decisions for their game, even when we disagree with them, and will threaten legal action of whatever sort over it, then this is going to be not only the first but the last time anyone tries to make a game with this level of participation from the start.

And I can't say as I'd blame em.

 

You guys have managed to get yourselves all up in a lather about something that isn't even an issue. Breathe. Nice and slow. Long... deep... breath.

Our stance on this topic has not changed. Shroud of the Avatar will not be a "pay-to-win" game. Period.

If you would like a preview of what we are shooting for in terms of an economic model, check you can check out GW2. Conceptually, it is very close to what we would like to do.

 

@FireLotus
I agree conceptually. But GW2 is actually fairly engineered to push you to the cash shop. If they did this for a little while, I can understand. But I'd rather just pay the $10 / month than have a game full of annoyances. So, this is a good model it you're trying to price discriminate and push people to pay monthly. And a bad model if you're trying to make a game that isn't annoying.

 

So In guild wars 2 you can buy gems in game or you can buy gems with real money. gems are used to buy in game items. those items I believe are unique to gems only right? so gems do have a gold equivalent, which is very much like the system I *think* Morkus was describing.


People who think they can have a top-notch brand new online free to play game with no real money transactions to help support it... I think are living in fantasy land and must be good RPers because of it

Now Richard Garriott has often mentioned League of Legends, which is how I've been picturing it. LoL lets you buy skins and if you want a ton of heroes (instead of getting your free ones and earning the others over time)... not pay to win, or even pay for advantage.. it's still about your skill vs their skill... So the equivalent to me would be decorative items/mounts/houses (not the house itself, just a unique house like a wizard tower instead of the standard ones) things like that. or different skill trees that are released later that give you options for gameplay, not better skills.

 

Whatever they decide on, they better give high pledges a bunch of gems to begin with. If I pledged 10k and now have to pay $15 for a skin or dye, you can bet I would be pissed.

 

Yay! There is some Currency Sales...

Alright well I am retiring from this thread to focus on 3D modeling!

Take care folks!

 

@Gunga Din ~ We are definitely aware of situations like the one you describe, which is why there are a complex series of decisions still to be made, and also why it is not something we are ready to define publically. We want to be sure we do right by our backers ~and~ create a solid game economy that allows us to develop great content while giving our players a great game play experience. Balancing that many variables is no easy task, but one we are ready and willing to take on successfully.

 

@Firelotus: I was about 99.9% certain you were aware of the issues that could arise.

Why not 100%?

(1) I wanted you to acknowledge this concern, because its the first thing that popped into my head as an issue.

(2) You were out sick yesterday and I had no ETA on your return. This concerned me and my confidence in the project decreased

 

LOL! The rumors of my demise were severely exaggerated.

 

One concern about this model that I have is that what if we don't use the cash shop? Will we suffer a penalty without knowing it? I played Zanga poker when it first came out, and several of my buddies and I who've played it noticed that if you don't share poker requests enough or buy chips you start losing!!!

I took about a six month break from Zanga Poker, and when I came back I went on a roll going up from 3 million chips to 25 million chips in 2 days. Then it became normal again. Then after playing daily for a week I started losing hands that had a very high probability of winning (Causing me to bet more, and lose more). This happened every time I bought in and I quit the game permanently.

This is the problem with this type of system. It makes me wonder if it keeps track of who has paid and who doesn't and it's possible that people who don't buy stuff can get a debuf and there is no real way to prove it. Also the cool things in the store usually can't be acquired by a person who doesn't pay for them. With a monthly fee we aren't subject to this uncertainty. Nevertheless, I understand that you'll make more money this way.

***********************
This will be satisfactory to me if you guys can write in the Terms of Service that we will not receive any debuffs or negative effects if we do not buy something from the store that month, and follow through on that promise.

**************************

 

Debuffs, negative effects if you don't use the cash shop? Mate, your head's gone.

*Firelotus notices Gunga not using the Cash shop*

Days later,

*Gunga starts getting one shot by rats and some guy named the Keymaster starts insta killing him in open Pvp, and loots everything he has...*

*Lord British shows up at his house, "Hey Gunga, I see you don't approve of our cash shop..." *LB starts to go Medieval on Gunga's house (Destroying his Founder's plaque, breaking the furniture, stomping through his garden and kicking his German dog*

 

I agree with Gunga Din big time on this one.. Isiah, you are way, way out there. Reaching big time. There are tons of MMOs and MOBA's that use RMT's and don't punish anyone for not using them... I really can't believe you even managed to get that thought put on the forum like you thought there was any way they would do that. That is just insanity.

 

Seems to work for Zanga