Probably beating a dead horse ...

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Aralain, Jul 8, 2018.

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  1. Aralain

    Aralain Avatar

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    But when I originally started way back when (I can't even remember what R it was), the vast majority of recipes were discoverable. If I wanted to make a new metal ingot, I played with the ingredients. I knew how to make a copper ingot … I just needed to get the mix right to get a bronze ingot.

    Same went for weapons … I knew how to make a dagger blade out of copper, so why wouldn't I be able to figure out how to make a dagger blade out of bronze or constantan? And if I have figured out how to put a copper mace head on a handle, why wouldn't I be able to figure out how to put an iron head on a handle (or constantan or meteoric iron)?

    What I am saying is that crafting is much more of a money sink in recipes than it should be. And having 'higher-end' recipes only drop off of random mobs is not just unrealistic, it's lazy. And limiting what is teachable is lazy, too … (if I want to teach an apprentice how to make something I know how to make, I do so … although it might take a few times and I just might charge them for it).

    But, all that said, how do I get those 'higher-end' recipes without having 2billion gold available to spend? Do I just pray to RNGesus (which never goes well for me), or do I have my buddy with stupid amazing luck go farm them for me somehow? And doesn't that defeat the purpose?

    So, horse is well dead by now, but I still really want to craft … how do I get the smelting, blacksmithing, leather, cloth, and tailoring recipes? I gave up on cooking, milling, and woodworking … so no worries there.
     
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  2. Proteus Tempest

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    Through discovery was great but all anyone had to do was go to a crafting website to get the answer to a new item.

    It made it far to easy for people to get the recipe without actually searching and experimenting and then discovering.

    There was no discovery for most players.

    This is my opinion as to why Portalarium changed the crafting recipe to you have to buy them or find them as drops.
     
  3. Lained

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    That was the main reason, secondary it helped improve loot drops.
     
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  4. Aralain

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    That helps a very established player … it doesn't help a 'newer' player who really wants to craft. I'd rather spend my time crafting in this game since all my story arc quests are broken and I can't progress through them any longer. I don't want to totally reset my quests, although I might have to. So, if I can't craft, and my quests are stuck, does that mean I'm just out the $ I dropped via pledge back in the day?

    Beyond the whining, though, my real questions were:
    "But, all that said, how do I get those 'higher-end' recipes without having 2billion gold available to spend? Do I just pray to RNGesus (which never goes well for me), or do I have my buddy with stupid amazing luck go farm them for me somehow? And doesn't that defeat the purpose?"
     
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  5. Rowell

    Rowell Avatar

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    Many of the recipes are Teachable / Re-teachable. That means, instead of buying the recipes from a vendor, you can ask your friends/guild mates if they have recipes that they can share.
     
  6. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    I think 2 billion may be a little high. :) I've seen many of the drop-only recipes go for 1500-2000 gold. Of course, the new rare ones go more much higher. But, a week or so later they come down in price as more people farm them.

    IIRC, all the NPC buyable ones are teachable. You can save some gold by tracking down someone who will teach to. There are many of us out there.

    Also, keep in mind that part of the these changes are to build an economy around components. It will be easier to just buy the white iron wire (or whatever) from someone that can make it. At least until you find the recipe for a reasonable price.

    I want to be one of the "can make everything" crafters. But, I also understand that for the long term health of the economy, that can't and shouldn't be an easy thing to do.
     
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  7. Aralain

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    Long-term health of the economy? When a base recipe is 250g from a merchant, 1500+g for the next up recipe is not 'healthy' … that's what they call 'inflated'.

    But, as a primarily solo/dual person group player, the player driven economy is something far away … and so are all those people willing to teach recipes. I get that part of the design was to drive social interaction, but I really just don't like most people (and do understand I don't make myself very likeable or approachable to others). I've been part of big guilds, small guilds, and in-between guilds all through my playing of online games, and just find the experience tiresome (usually). I have enough drama in my real-life that I just don't need it in a fake online-life. So, I really appreciated the fact that I could discover things on my own and just craft when I wanted to. The mechanics of adventuring are relatively easy solo, which I like about the game, and I can go and harvest the base materials fairly easily. But the whole recipe thing puts me in a bind when I want to upgrade my own gear, but I can't because the recipe for something that I could previously discover now I cannot (or logically thinking a smith would be able to figure out from knowing a like recipe … like moving up to a bronze longsword when you know how to make a copper one …). 250g x3 (hilt, blade, longsword) doesn't seem bad when gold is relatively easy to come by, but when it's 1500+g x3 an you have NO IDEA or NO WAY TO FIND OUT which player merchant is selling it, that really puts a damper on a solo player. Almost makes me want a refund ...
     
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  8. Cora Cuz'avich

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    (technically, it's only x2, the longsword recipe can be used with any type of longsword blade and hilt)

    But I see your point.
     
  9. Dartan Obscuro

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    I just wish finding recipes felt natural. Basic recipes should be available in all the towns, more advanced should be available from renown NPC crafters spread across the land e.g. an eccentric clock maker in Brittany with clock recipes; an Elvin style furniture maker in Yew with Elvin recipes; a prison guard in Desolis with shackle, prison cot, torture device recipes; etc. These guys could have crafting quests required before they share their secrets like "I'll tell you how if you fetch me 50 timbers".
     
  10. Arradin

    Arradin Avatar

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    Meh. As a crafter, i hated it. It was just another step to where you HAVE to hunt if you want to craft. You should have a chance to discover high end reciepes while crafting.
     
  11. Kain Darkmoor

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    Recipe saturation has honestly made it so that most recipes aren't worth much more than what it costs to buy from an npc, and half the reason there are some more expensive one is that some people buy them and resell them at higher prices.

    I say just make all the recipes purchasable from npcs and be done with it honestly.
     
  12. Xandra7

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    Where do you buy your recipes so cheap, most that I see go for between 5,000g and 20,000g per. Agree with making them purchasable from regular NPCs. It has been difficult reaching GM in my craft
    and then having to spend a small fortune collecting most of the recipes.
     
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  13. Lifedragn

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    Being a dedicated crafter in this game is not reasonably possible.
    * Crafting is by design a coin sink.
    * You need to craft A LOT to get producer XP if you don't go out gathering your own mats.
    * If you don't go adventure for your own mats, you'll never be able to earn enough gold to afford what other players charge for them.
    * With the exception of top end items, it is nigh impossible to sell crafted goods at or above cost, meaning profits are hard to come by.
    * High end recipes are now non-teachable loot drops. Adventurers (who already gain all of the coins) get to demand high prices from crafters (who already drain most of their coins) just so that the crafters can make items players will want to buy.
    * 5,000 is pretty cheap by adventuring gold standards.

    TLDR: You must adventure to support your crafting habit.
     
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  14. Mugly Wumple

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    TAKE NOTE that every Re-Teachable recipe is also discoverable.
     
  15. Talimar

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    I almost never put recipes for over 5k. Only the odd one.
     
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  16. majoria70

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    I'm sorry @Aralain about the way our recipes work and I totally understand not wanting to be in a guild or to be social. If you've played MMOs for awhile perhaps it is easy to get a bad taste from interacting with others. The thing is this game has a lot to offer and getting those recipes is important for you to move forward. If I was in town I would happily share all those teachable recipes with you and then you'd never have to speak with me again. It takes approximately 30-45 minutes to share them all. There are a lot.

    Also if you go to wizards rest located behind owlshead in hidden vale most players in town can share recipes with you. On the bulletin board and on books and notes around town also I have listed some tips for things in the game. Like how to play music in the game, how to get 500 a day from the Oracle, how to send mail, how to get the devotional shrines blessings etc. You may know already but just in case;).
     
  17. 2112Starman

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    Here are the other negatives you wont see people talk about like me because we already have a hug advantage over you:

    Negative 1: people like all of us got recipes of vendors (250 gold per) and have the full set of all recipes. You as a new person has to struggle to find them now.
    Negative 2: people who play the game a lot in high end content have amassed massive numbers or recipes and a small set of players keep the prices really high... way to high for even me to afford them if I was buying.
    etc....
     
  18. Tiina Onir

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    While it's not a solution in game, and you do still have to be aware it's out there, I do have listings for at least one vendor that has each of the vast majority of the recipes out there. As @Mugly Wumple points out, to save on cash, anything "re-teachable" should also still be discoverable. If there's demand for it, I could have a page which lists the re-teachable/discoverable recipes pretty quick (sometime this week).

    That said, I do need to update the search-index again.
     
  19. Kara Brae

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    In the old days I could indeed go to a crafting site and look up recipes. I still had to forge for the ingredients. That was ok. Now I have to forge for both the recipes and the ingredients. Is this more fun? No, not for me. It is less fun. I also don't care at all if recipes drop as loot from boss mobs because I will never kill a boss mob. I do often get recipes from guildmates who have looted extra ones. Is this more fun? No, not for me. Though I am grateful to my friends for all their help, I would have a better feeling if I didn't have to mooch off of them. And if I were a solo player, not a member of any guild, I would have to pay an arm and a leg for such recipes. Bah!
     
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  20. Barugon

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    Aww... hug advantage....

    [​IMG]
     
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