PvP Rewards

I had mentioned it in another topic and would like to get some feedback from the community on this. In DAoC (Dark Ages of Camelot) we had a PvP reward system, which was actually called RvR (Realm v Realm). With this system you are able to earn RA's (Realm Abilities) through what we would call PvPing.

Successful attacks/defenses on/of strategic points, such as keeps and towers, would result in the gaining of Realm Points. You could also gain these points in free-roaming PvP by killing other players. These points could then be converted into to RA's which gave the hero distinct advantages over those of a lower Realm Rank or non PvPers. The advantageous gains of RA's actually drew a large portion of the gaming community to RvR regardless of whether or not they ever intended to PvP.

My question to this community then, is, would you be interested in seeing more than a prestige based PvP reward system? Would a PvP system that grants new abilities and further customize your gaming experience be welcomed?

 

I don't even know how to respond to this... This sounds like the typical knee jerk reaction from a PvEr. You had one bad experience with PvP and now everything is murder.

You assuming that by me saying PvP you think I'm running around "murdering" everyone is just egregious. That certainly doesn't have to be the case. How can it be role-playing? Just one example off my head in 3 seconds, I've been defending my lords city from his enemies successfully for months. And he decides to have his master at arms tutor me directly? So now I have better fighting capabilities than some guy who was just running around in the woods fighting boars? No reason at all role-playing has to be removed.

Not too mention you fail to bring up all the penalties I'd have if I were doing what you said, Perma red, bounty on my head, can't go in cities. None of what you're saying is on topic with OP.

 

@rschultzy80 you should read the post log of the user first, before coming to wrong assumptions ;-)

 

Why would I read the post logs of someone who just made a blanket statement saying all PvP is murder and said there was no RP merit when I can think of hundreds of examples off the top of my head?

Could someone reply regarding OP?

 

Well, me personally dont like any advantages that boost your performance in PvP. Your own skill should solve the outcome of any PvP encounter. I like to see more of a guildwise boost where my community gain some rare ores or something like that. Boost the many players but leave any 1 vs 1 to the player and his skills.

 

I don't think you should get a specail reward for choosing a playstyle....but thats just me I guess. I'm ok with you getting some pvp specific items or what not but your ideas don't fit the game.

@Wsye You would do better to not have your knee jerk anti pvp reactions, geez!

 

I didn't play DaoC. I did play warhammer and GW2 which attempted to pattern their "RvR" after DaoC.

I want owning objects and castles to have economic meaning in the game. Spoils for the haves, greed and envy for the have nots. The "reward" should be tied a bit to taking and mostly for holding an objective. And it should go to the guild and a bit to faction/supporters (or however that is modeled.)

I'm happy with the idea of PvP levels and PvP titles. Like Vanilla WoW. I'm happy with achievements, badges, prestige items. I'm happy with some kinds of tokens that allow someone who almost exclusively PvPs to have comfortable gear which more than offsets any losses.

I do not want characters getting stronger through PvP other than to the extent you you would have through PvE. And I'd rather have little to no grind in the game. The idea that PvPing more makes you better at PvP should only be true for the player - not the character. I never want to see PvP gear that makes you invincible in PvP (e.g. WoW, RIFT, Aion) or gives you a huge set of skills and advancement (warhammer).

I was one of the first few RR80s in warhammer and it did two things:
1) It made me much stronger that everyone else, to the point of being completely unfair and
2) There was no reason to play any more, when the grind was over, I'd maxed out.

 

Ok, to answer your questions:

1. We don't know yet, if there are factions/realms in the game. And frankly I'm not a big fan of it, since it takes away the choice from the players in favor of some preconfiguration, you have no big influence on.

2. I follow Ara in the balancing aspect. I don't know, how Camelot handeled this, but giving the dominant faction even more bonuses seems highly balance breaking to me. I even go so far to plead for a system, where a good crafter is able to craft items at least as good as the items you find in the other content. Since you can't produce everything by yourself (one character, not infinite skill points) you will still have to buy the other stuff with loot from the missions or get your equipment there. As soon as you reward a gamestyle with better equipment, it's getting really difficult to remain a balance (in most MMOs it's the Raiders-crowd, that gets the favored over the rest)

3. What's the problem with prestige, trophies, achievements and maybe a leader board, to keep things competitive (Richard seems to like E-Sports according to a hangout). I prefer a system, where people choose a playstyle, because it is fun and challenging, not because you are forced to do it to see all content or get character advancements, etc. When people see, that the PvP content is really fun and challenging, they will come all by themselves.

 

Just to throw in something that might be fun, but in no way giving the advantage:

After you have reached a set amount of pvp kills you gain a new skill, using this skill on your future pvp kills will allow you to loot an item in the form of a trophy from your victims. Mouse over the trophy will show name of the person you defeated.
You can show off your trophies in your home or guild house.

Maybe trophies will only show up in 1v1s ..

 

IMHO:

- Anything that gives the player a meaningful PvP advantage, apart from the normal ("PvE") character progression, is bad. PvP should be based on skill, not on who did the longest grind. Allowing players to "level up" their characters through pure PvP, giving an alternative to PvE leveling, is a good idea, though.

- Other kinds of rewards with game consequences are fine if they are not exclusive. Ideally, a PvE player should be able to earn equivalent rewards through PvE content that is as hard and demanding as the PvP content. The opposite should also be true: ideally a PvP player should be able to earn, through pure PvP, about everything that can be earned in PvE.

- Purely cosmetic rewards - titles, cosmetic gear, prestige non-combat pets, etc - are fine even if exclusive.

- Forcing a player into PvP in order to be competitive for PvE is just as bad as forcing a player into PvE in order to be competitive for PvP. In the OP, when it says that "The advantageous gains of RA?s actually drew a large portion of the gaming community to RvR regardless of whether or not they ever intended to PvP", it's basically saying that players that didn't want to PvP were being forced into PvP in order to remain competitive.


GW2 is implementing something similar in it's WvW. The main difference is that the WvW abilities won't improve the character's fighting prowess, but rather make it more effective in certain WvW tasks (carry more resources, damage or repair structures faster, etc). That one seems to be a reasonably good approach, as the WvW level won't give an advantage in PvP per see, but it will still make the character more valuable in WvW.

 

@Strider:

You bring up some good points,

1) The PVP system in WoW was notorious for rewarding players simply for PVP. As much as I want to encourage PVE players to accept some risk and experiences outside of teaming up with other players to battle scripted opponents; I do not think PVP should be gear based.

2) Cosmetic rewards are an excellent way to encourage some players to escape the bubble surrounding them. I'm interested in there being "server" rares similar to that of Ultima Online spawned in PVP exclusive areas (if there's even such a thing).

3) I cannot agree with you more on this. A player should not receive rewards in this manner for participating in PVP. The reward for PVP is experiencing a risky, challenging, competitive gameplay style. This is reward in itself. However, as RG has explicitly stated there should be incentives for the PVE players to enter PVP. I agree with his opinion on that, the incentive doesn't necessarily have to be gear per se, but something else that will entice a player to choose the riskier path. Some PVE players may disagree with that, but they have no idea what these incentives may be.