Question about Novian lore

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mikeaw1101, Jun 19, 2015.

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  1. mikeaw1101

    mikeaw1101 Avatar

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    I was just wondering if there's a way to realistically explain how some of us "off worlders" have been able to obtain noble dispensations (especially titles like "Duke" or "Baron", these are generally not bestowed for meritorious actions as mere knighthoods or lordships sometimes are)? I mean, we all seem to be highly mistrusted by many locals - and we all arrived roughly around the same time (same "generation", at least), so what gives? Also, while I'm thinking about it, how could an avatar become "landed" so quickly (i.e. player-owned towns) since nobody knows us from Adam when we arrive... :p

    This mystery has been vexing me for some time now, and I just wanted to know if there's any lore already in place to explain it (I haven't read BoTA yet, waiting for the physical copy; I guess its possible they've accounted for this - but unlikely - since the timeframe is 500 years before our arrival).

    Can at least one of you storytelling wizards can come up with something that sounds believable, lol? :confused:
     
  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    It's quite simple really. The only piece of lore you really need is the time dilation between worlds. The big problem I see that you're having is the notion that we all arrived around the same time but in New Britannia time that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. Even if you assume most or all Avatars are from Earth.. a 1 year difference here is.. according to the game clock at least.. 26 years there. (The actual ratio is closer to between 30-40 to 1 but 26 to 1 is easier on the in-game math)

    Now the game year is already around what? 463 now? With R1 being around the year 400.. so even if you arrived no earlier than year 400 PC than you've had the greater part of a lifetime to accumulate wealth.

    BUT.. since the oracle was built presumably at least 150 years prior to 400 PC.. some time after the events of BotA as is largely responsible for the arrival of Outlanders.. you could stretch your backstory that much further.

    Also, there is no actual way for natives to know you're an Outlander by sight. Everyone who has a title will have been early arrivals who've been here for several decades by the time the game launches. Plenty of time to blend in and earn a bit of cash and renown.
     
  3. mikeaw1101

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    I'm not buying it... :cool:
     
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  4. Razimus

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    I see a lot of anti-lore stuff going on. And you make a good point. My dude is from Novia. But, secretly, is from the great Serpent Isle, he just doesn't mention it. So my dude, worships the Oracle and, the worshiping of British or Blackthorn is very anti-lore, which is why I'm surprised such has been encouraged. SotA staff wise it's great but in-game lore wise it makes zero sense. My dude has barley heard of British & Blackthorn, any mention of them would yield a response similar to the previous Ultimas (Serpent Isle or Pagan) when you told a guard you were The Avatar, they shrugged it off treating you like you're crazy. I think there should be more Novia lore acceptance going on.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Where the heck does worship of British or Blackthorn come into play? Neither has ever happened anywhere in Ultima or SotA.. and if you mean church of the Darkstar that's really chaos.. not Darkstar specifically.
     
  6. Razimus

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    I'm talking about players in this community. Of their own agenda, own accord, have been role-playing the worship of Lord British and Lord Blackthorn, or more hero worship. Which is as anti-Novia-lore as you can get as Garriott himself mentioned how Nobles of Novia don't know about, or barley know about them, don't consider them Lords, etc etc. If you need me to point you in the direction of where this is taking place, it's taking place everywhere. I might hurt some good player's feelings if I pointed it out more obviously than I have, while they are good meaning they don't seem to care about Novia lore, if they did they wouldn't be so anti-Novia-lore-focused. My worshiping of the Oracle for example, I'm sure 50% of you think it's straight up stupid, when it's 100% Novia Lore! So basically you're calling SotA Lore stupid if you call my role-playing the worshiping of the Oracle stupid. At least some of us are attempting to bring life into the already existing Novia back story. And if you reply to me w/out using any type of reply command I can't know you're replying to me btw, I just randomly checked this thread and saw your reply.
     
  7. Bowen Bloodgood

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    That's what context is for. ;) At any rate.. among two things we can't do is.. 1: Make people RP. and 2: Make them RP in a way we agree with.

    I'm sure I don't need to tell you that a large percentage of players simply don't RP at all a lot of them are active members of the community. We could also argue that the situation of the game right now in your words is "anti-lore".

    Putting aside for a moment that your examples aren't really what the OP is referring to. If I come out and provide a framework that works towards answering the question in the OP and someone chooses "not to buy it" that's entirely their prerogative. Though I personally think it's a very workable approach. It's what I might point to as an example of something that people should just set aside and not dwell on overly much. If people's out of character behavior or inconsistencies in lore troubles someone then that's just something they're going to have to deal with.

    I deal with inconsistencies by either coming up with a rational explanation that works for me.. or being unable to reconcile differences I ignore it.
     
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  8. Beaumaris

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    I'd offer that 'anti-lore' is not the right description. It has a negative connotation implying that anyone who role plays something other than direct game lore is 'anti'....

    Creativity and diversity are the rule of the day here. Lore or not lore. And thank the stars for it. It would be a pretty dull day indeed if everyone was a clone that looked alike, thought alike, and role played exactly the same.

    That someone might play counter to game lore, or a story different from it, can viewed more positively as creativity and diversity. And when done well, may complement or highly the game's written lore. If someone can RP in a way that builds a reputation that adds to game lore, that is RP success.

    The funniest role playing I have seen is Kirk, Bones, and Spock beaming down on a 'away mission' in WOW. Lore based? No. But it was hilarious. And also good role playing. In fact, because it was so different than everyone else running around like knights or orcs, the different spin on things actually highlighted game lore.

    That groups of people might role play seeing Lord British or Darkstarr as significant leaders in Novia - not a huge surprise, not do I see it as anti-lore. I see it as a group creating their own lore around it, which if effective enough, will influence and create another dimension to the lore of the game.

    Just like 'player run' orc forts in UO did when they took on a life of their own.

    Now all that said, I think a great point was hidden between the lines in the posts above, which is when will the broader Novia backstories of LB and Darkstarr emerge and what will they be?
     
  9. Jatvardur

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    One point of clarification is that Lordships are not "mere". When the titles were reshuffled it was decided that the "Lord" in-game title is higher than Baron; this was done to reflect historically well known titles. The problem was with the pledge title names, and it is still confusing!
     
  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    One need not necessarily take pledge titles at face value. Personally, I consider them out of game much in the same way that in-game measurements do not use the metric system despite the fact that Unity uses meters. Whatever title someone chooses to use is up to them. I'm not a knight because I pledged.. I'm a knight because I say so.
     
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  11. redfish

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    Keep in mind, there's an 'Ancestor' pledge tier. It has as rewards a cloak with an "Ancestor symbol." Also, a tombstone, which is described like this: "Your (or your character's) name permanently displayed on an in-game, centrally located, tombstone as an ancestor of the old world." And what's 'Founder' really all about? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
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  12. Drocis the Devious

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    My own personal backstory is that I inherited land, title, and other "stuff" from an anonymous source. I don't know why I was selected for these things, but I'm happy to use them in this new world to achieve my goals.
     
  13. redfish

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    I was that anonymous source, and I want my land back!
     
  14. Razimus

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    I'm not here to force anyone to role play or to not role play or to role play how I want them to role play. The fact of the matter is, players will role play using Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, etc, as their backstory, so I guess I can agree, Ultima lore trumps at least non-Ultima lore. Then there will be those that role play using generic medieval stories, which is great, but there will be those that role play whatever pop culture thing happens at the moment, just hope it is more refined role playing than what I saw in UO, now there were some good role players in UO, orc guilds, etc, but overall the biggest role playing I saw in UO involved pop culture. If The Matrix was big, there'd be people role playing The Matrix, etc. So all in all, respect for the lore is better than no respect for the lore. I would never expect even 30% of the population to be very familiar with Blade of the Avatar and other lore based documents, but I just really hope those that are, and role play as such aren't ostracized.
     
  15. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Ultimately there is some reprieve to be found in the game's match making. You see someone who's RP you enjoy.. put them on your friends list.. someone really ruining things for you.. block list.

    I can't imagine being ostracized for adhering to the world lore but that is what the block list and match making is for.
     
  16. Stryker Sparhawk

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    This is also a similar background for my character, except he's a little rougher on the edges of etiquette than the average court politician most of the time, and not out to rule the world.
     
  17. StrangerDiamond

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    I'll take teh cash and renown... well maybe I don't need the renown... :)
     
  18. mikeaw1101

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    Mark my words, this 'feature' will make for a very 'vanilla' game, for variety is the 'spice of life'.
     
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  19. redfish

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    Vanilla is actually my favorite flavor of ice cream. Vanilla is a taste, you know :)

    But you're also basically saying that all single player games are vanilla. And what a lot of people want to recreate is the feeling of playing tabletop RPGs with their friends, which 'vanilla' or not, is a good experience.

    I mean, you have a point saying that there's something to not being overly selective to the people you meet. But don't diss the other side of the coin.
     
  20. mikeaw1101

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    I won't man.. but at the same time, if you only ever play with people who you *know* then that seems kind of like boring to me after awhile... Plus given what they have put out so far I don't have really high hopes for the 'single player' version of this game.
     
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